1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice


Discussion in 'Further Education' started by carbon footprint, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. My friend who works in the private training sector has just been told that he needs to acquire PTLLS as the company have been told in no uncertain terms that their training staff must be qualified and must join the IfL. As the company in question undertake government contracts it would be most unwise to oppose eventual compulsion.

    I also work and have contacts in the world of training and development and though I do not agree with many of the proposals put forward be under no illusion that the way forward is that all educators will have to be qualified and the new ones entering will have to be licensed.

    Regarding pre 2001's I feel that APEL is appropriate for QTLS.
  2. "*********** although pre 2001 you were not required to hold teaching qualifications the IfL now insist that you do. So even if you were teaching prior to 2001 the regulations now demand that you meet the framework."

    Actually Alex the IfL are not insisting on anything of the sort. I have spoken to them abnout this and its on their website.

    They say that an employer may " encourage" a teacher who does not have qualifications to take them. They do not advocate that pre 2001 teachers without qualifications should be required to take them.

    In fasct they make it very clear that they are working on a framework whereby experience alone will be APEL'd in order for a teacher to become QTLS.

    Further, I will say again ( this applies especially to ATL members - if you are not a member of ATL maybe you should be - because I have it from them in writing ) the unions are against any existing teacher being made to take qualifications or update qualifications or re train. If your employer asks you to re train speak to them immediately at regional or Head Office because they will deal with it. They are taking a very dim view of employers who are trying to use this new system to make teachers re train or take additional qualifications.

    If you are being told you need qualifications, need to retrain or that the IFfL is demanding this, you are being misinformed.
    Please read the IfL website its clearly written there. I have quoted from it and from the 2007 regs constantly here.

    The IfL state clearly that no existing teacher is to be disadvantaged or made to re train or take qualifications in order to fulfil QTLS.

    So if you dont do anything now , bottom line, yopu will be APEL'd into the system by 2010 without question.

    Whilst it may be that some other private trainers ( in receipt of LSC funding) are telling their employees to register the fact remains idf ( again) you speak to the IfL or read their web site only teachers in FE colleges ( and only those who do not have QTS in FE Colleges ) are being required to sign for membership ( not register for QTLS because you will not get it anyway at the moment - only newly trained teachers from 2008 will get that) for the purposes of CPD.

    Of course being a member should lead to QTLS in due course and would save you the problem of joining later.

    Of course it is very likely that most employers will sign their staff in en mass shortly , as they did with QTS a few years ago.

    That said, as someone has asked , what will happen if you dont sign up ..... well judging by the GTC(E) , not a lot. They will send a couple of threatening letters and then forget you for about five years and then ask for backdated dosh for your " arrears" of membership fees.

  3. *********** I have read the regulations and if you look at the template diagram it is clear that qualifications are the order of the day. My local college has just been rapped by ofsted for relying on unqualified staff.

    If you really believe that it will be just a case of transferring over by way of APEL then I am struck by your naivety coming from one who is usually clued in. Think of the furore over QTS for PGCE FE'rs and how difficult it is to even find a top up programme. What is more how will you prove satifactory employment and what is more I would love to see a candidate compile a lengthy portfolio to prove competence. The word nightmare springs to mind.

    We can disagree over the terminology ie, insist v encourage but it is clear in black and white that all educators dealing in public money will have to be qualified and registered to the satisfaction of the IfL.

    Finally, when everything has settled down I believe that pre 2001 teachers will be coerced into accepting the conditions attached to QTLS.
  4. "I am struck by your naivety coming from one who is usually clued in. Think of the furore over QTS for PGCE FE'rs and how difficult it is to even find a top up programme."

    You are mistaking naivity for cynicism Alex. Its precisely because I went through the who QTS debacle that I am saying what I am!

    Back in 1989 they told teachwers who had Cert Ed they would have to "upgrade" to a degree to get QTS * or rather they " encouraged") . They also wanted teachers ( and there were and still are many more than you think) graduates who went into teaching and didnt need or ever take a PGCE - and many of these teachers were still using that system right up until 1989) to take a teaching qualification. They were told for a long time they were " not qualified and needed to get top ups" but then suddenly it all changed.

    By 2001 they APEL'd all those teachers into the QTS without any ado. Those teachers are still teaching, they have QTS and they have over the years been joined by GTP ers who do not have teaching qualifcations either - just QTS! . Its a real laugh.

    This is why I have always been so annoyed that FE teachers who did have qualifications and were degree holders and had previously been able to work in schools were suddenly, almost overnight made
    "unqualified" and no mechanism has ever been adequately provided for them to become QTS other than to re train.

    The lack of equality here is astounding. Of course the same instrument that took all those above mentioned Cert Eds and grads without teaching qualifications directly into QTS also took me into it! As an FE teacher working before 1989 and a graduate I too was able to get QTS. The problem was the willingness of many FE employers to sign the paperwork ( or lack of it - because you had to get the Principal to sign!!!!! How many of us in FE meet the Principal . let alone get a sig directly from them in our carrers?).

    Anyway, from speaking to the IfL directly and at length I am pretty sure the system is going to end up going the same way as QTS was back in the 1990's .

    That mechanism closed just before the QTLS thing came in.

    I am not naive - anyone who decides to retrain is naive!

  5. *********** I didn't mean that you personally were naive (I know from your many posts that that is not the case) rather that you believe, based on previous good fortune, that things will turn out right again. I am aware that you gained QTS via the statutory instruments and well done for exploiting it. However, I do not share the your notion that QTLS will flow freely to older experienced teachers. I am told (and by some influential people) that licensing will become the standard so even if you hold previous level 4 qualifications you will almost be compelled via CPD to undergo reskilling.

    Where I do agree with you is that the whole thing has been badly thought out ie, how have we elevated FE teaching by tiering teachers e.g associate teachers full teachers. This still does not address the parity of esteem issue namely that all compulsory teachers are graduate level and FE maybe; based it seems on the area they teach/train in.

    So whatever, we read and however, we interpret it we can agree I am sure, that these changes will not address the fundamentals and therefore, cannot make us world class as David Hunter would have us believe.
  6. The lifelong learning sector includes all post 16 education including further education FE, adult and community learning, work based learning and offender education.


    Teachers in a full time teaching role will have 5 years in which to meet the QTLS (That is all teachers new and pre 2001) although as has been said the pre 2001's if they hold PGCE/CertED/7407 Stage 3 will not have to undertake further initial qualifications. Those in an associate teaching role have 3 years in which to meet the ATLS requirements.

    THOSE WITH CURRENT TEACHING QUALIFICATIONS WILL BE REQUIRED TO WORK TOWARDS QTLS STATUS (As I have said this indicates that it will not be automatically awarded; whether it will be subject to APEL/APL is a matter of debate/controversy and no one at the IfL can give a definitive explanation. ON THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEIR QUALIFICATIONS MAY (NOTE THE WORD MAY) BE DEEMED TO HAVE COVERED UNITS TOWARDS QTLS QUALIFICATIONS.

    Therefore, it seems to me that there is no guarantee that despite holding PGCE FE that I and others have met the requirement in the new framework for automatically receiving QTLS. I rather suspect that the CPD element will be used to ensure that existing teachers cover any unit or element that is considered necessary to allow QTLS to be awarded. My reason for saying this is driven by the following sentence THEY MUST STILL GAIN QUALIFICATIONS APPROPRIATE TO THEIR ROLE UNDER THE NEW FRAMEWORK, AND EVIDENCE THE CONTINUING PROFESSIONAL REQUIREMENT.

    Having said all of the above if you gain a brand new level 5 diploma you can APPLY FOR QTLS. There does appear to be an inconsistency in the rules in that existing teachers may or may not meet the requirements but yet if you are a new diploma holder you just apply no need to do anything else it seems.

    You can read the full document at QTLS microsite www.cityandguilds.com/QTLS
  7. I have been told by the IFL that QTS makes me FE 'qualified'. However there is an additional issue with the teaching of Life Skills for which I may well be 'unqualified'-and this needs checking out with yet another body. Anyone any advice re this ?
  8. Skills for life qualifications have been reclassified e.g the old C&G 9281 which was at level 3 I believe has now been pitched at level 2 which is not at the level of initial teaching qualfications.

    Skills for life teachers now have to acquire specific SfL qualifications to go with their generic teaching qualification. (see new framework at City and guilds site)
  9. Looked at the requirements for those starting in FE after 1st September 2007 (includes me). I get the impression that the government are trying to make it as difficult as possible to qualify.

    The website www.lifelonglearninguk.org says "All teachers, tutors, trainers, lecturers and instructors, including those working before 2001, will be required to fulfil at least 30 hours of continuing professional development (CPD) each year..."

    Will FE colleges be willing to release people for 4 days a year training?

  10. Just think how much better the lessons ought to be for students if the 30 hrs CPD is delivered as per individual learning plans for teachers, trainers, lecturers and instructors in post 16 education.

    if you think education costs try the costs resulting from the lack of education ....

    Still given this information and knowing the benefits tyhat can accrue I doubt FE Management will understand them and implement plans for CPD.

  11. ........I have registered twice in the last 3 months........still heard nothing!!!

    Will refuse to pay if I have to register again in the new year!!
  12. I've managed to get the website to accept my details and send me an email. I guess now it's a case of waiting to see if it works.
  13. I applied online on the 12 October got my certificate yesterday 29 November.
  14. I registered online in October. I received my Certificate yesterday - twice! i.e two packs arrived, each with the same identical certificate. So I doubly sure of my registration :)
  15. Lifelong Learning UK have just sent out a very illuminating poster to all colleges. It outlines, very precisely, what everyone needs to do to become fully qualified (depending upon your start date in FE).

    Here's the link

  16. Go to the bullet-point that says.....

    Download the Summary Sheet 'Qualifications for teachers, tutors, trainers, lecturers and instructors in the FE sector in England
  17. "All teachers, tutors, trainers, lecturers and instructors, including those working before 2001, will be required to fulfil at least 30 hours of continuing professional development (CPD) each year, with reduced amounts for those on sessional, fractitional or part time contracts."

    why is this only applicable to FE.. how come secondary and primary don't have to do this.. and what happens if you don't complete the 30 hrs!?
  18. I still haven't received mine :(
  19. Haven't received mine either.

    The CPD requirement is a joke, another stick to beat FE teachers with whilst secondary teachers get off scott free (as far as I know).

  20. would that be the CPD requirement ALL professional bodies make of their members, but not the GTC because it is only a registration body?

Share This Page