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If new teachers are soon to get £30K minimum, what about more experienced teachers??

Discussion in 'Education news' started by mindthegap, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. alexrichard3142

    alexrichard3142 New commenter

    You sound as though your offended by the pay increase proposed for nqts? Hopefully im misconceived. The truth is if you want to attract good quality graduates, particularly in maths and science (which is where those types of bursaries are going) then the pay needs to increase in order to be more inline with other sectors where they could work, such as pharmaceuticals and engineering. Im currently training in biology secondary and the work load is immense, then as an nqt all of support framework that surrounds you is removed and your workload increases, its by no means an easy job, especially if you want to get it right. And dont forgot that the pay increase for nqts is only proposed, and until 2022, so if your son qualifies in 2021 he'll have to do something else for a poxy year, or start on 23k
     
  2. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    Don't worry. It's all lies - just a smokescreen to divert your attention away from other issues.
    You will be getting sodd all, other than the boot when you become too expensive.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    I agree! But really, any raise should go to experienced teachers (if there are any left).
     
  4. TES_Rosaline

    TES_Rosaline Administrator Staff Member

  5. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

  6. letap

    letap Occasional commenter

    Needless to say I will come across as a negative Nelly - if schools are already working to deficit, then how are these schools going to absorb the pay increase across the board and also eventually the enhanced employer contribution for pensions. For sure, the school budgets are being increased but I can't imagine them covering salary and extra pension contribution costs.
    Academies and sixth form colleges can almost pay what they like, however, in these troubled times the apparent interest in increasing school budgets to include hefty wage rises seems like good tabloid fodder.
     
    abacus1982 likes this.
  7. abacus1982

    abacus1982 Established commenter

    If the starting salary is £30,000 then they will need to increase the other pay scales accordingly otherwise after 4-5 years the salary just hasn't moved on and would still be the same as it is now. If they do this then they will also have to increase the leadership scale surely. Otherwise you will have situations where a class teacher with UPS/TLR could suddenly be on the same as the DHT. So they may need to increase the DHT salary which will then mean they need to increase the HT salary!

    Not really thought through I think!
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  8. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    The payrise for NQTs to £30k is also about attracting young overseas teachers. With Brexit, £30k is only about €34k or US$37k. To put that into context, when the salary for £23k over a decade ago that meant that overseas teachers got €34k or over US$40k.

    The 'raise' is just to bring it back up to where it was to attract the cheap young travelling teachers.
     
  9. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    Maybe they'll do it like the training bursaries: here you are, have £28k tax free to train as a science teacher, and then £30k as an NQT, and we won't mention that after that we'll dump you on to the main payscale and your pay will go down.
     
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  10. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    It’s not rocket science.

    M1 = £30,000.
    M6 = c.£36,000 (currently).

    Add 2.5% to M6 = c.£36,900.

    That leaves 4 pay bands (M2, M3, M4 and M5) to fit between.

    That’s a gap of around £1,400 between each one, so, the new salaries could be something like:

    M1 £30,000
    M2 £31,400
    M3 £32,800
    M4 £34,200
    M5 £35,600
    M6 £36,900

    Probably like that, but with larger gaps at the bottom (M1 to M2 is a jump of £2,000), and smaller gaps further up (maybe M5 to M6 is just £1,000).

    Here’s the kicker, though. Can anyone see this coming?

    UPS 3 only gets 2%, UPS 2 gets 1.5%, and UPS 3 just 1%. Over the next decade or so UPS 1-3 bunches up, and M6 catches up with them. Eventually the difference is just a few pounds, and so UPS is phased out.

    The expectations of UPS are transferred right down the scale from M6 upwards.

    That’s a guess. Could be wrong.

    In reality i think it’ll be a little better than that at the top end, but not much.
     
  11. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    Anyone remember the days when the pay scale only had points from 0 to 9, and most people started on point 2? The complaint was that you went up the scale for 7 years and then that was it. So they added in a 6 point UPS on top, with a hurdle to get onto it. Then they cut the number of points "so we could get to it quicker", and hey presto, we were back to a nine point scale, with a hurdle after point 6 and progression only every two years after that.

    So yes, I can certainly imagine further changes that take us to a shorter scale that you move up more slowly.
     
    agathamorse and PeterQuint like this.
  12. shevington

    shevington Occasional commenter

    For those long in the tooth Scale 1-14. Four increments for a degree ,six for a Honours Degree. The increments were worth £30 per year !!! The good old days of teaching.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  13. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    And don't forget the Social Priority Allowance!
     
  14. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    I don't know where this money is going to come from. Also, at £30,000 as a starting point, teachers should be required to work year-round.
     
  15. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    It was 11 point scale when I started. As a mature entrant I started on point 9. 4 for my degree and an additional 5 for my previous work experience.
     
  16. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Lead commenter

    They do work year-round. But, if you were a teacher you'd know this already.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  17. MadHatter76

    MadHatter76 New commenter

    My school responded in disbelief when I asked to start on M2 instead of M1 as a science NQT - I thought maybe 20 years in industry might have counted for something even though I was obviously an inexperienced teacher, but clearly not. I should have told them to stick it as the year did not end well :D
     
  18. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    Uh no, I'm talking about going onto school sites, work, attend team meetings, and maybe even teaching all year round minus of course Christmas holidays, Easter...just like other jobs. 8-5 every day, Mon-Friday.
     
  19. nanniedeb

    nanniedeb New commenter

    I wouldn't worry about experienced teachers... we are not wanted! I worked in a school which bullied everyone over M4 into resigning. A lot of experienced and loved staff went that July. Since then I have observed that anyone over a certain payscale rarely gets to an interview. Well so be it... I am looking forward to education collapsing because of the lack of experienced teachers (I could say more but won't)
     
    agathamorse and littlestrebel like this.
  20. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Lead commenter

    Well most people work 9-5.30, so shall we say 8.30-5?

    and I presume that will mean they get thirty days leave a year to take when they want?

    Also there will be no requirement to work outside these hours like most jobs. So time will need to be given for the planning making etc to take place. Which means you'll need to employ more teachers. Hmm I think many teachers would be okay with that.

    What about the children though are you expecting 4/5 year olds to be there every day add well?
     
    agathamorse likes this.

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