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IDL in Secondary Schools

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by flamencodancer, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. What is your opinion of IDL? Do you see it as contrived and time wasting in the main? I think it is going to impact on subject specialism and will cause a dilution of Secondary Education. I can see that in some subjects there may be a natural link with other disciplines but I fear that for others the links are so tenuous that I cannot see the value in spending so much time trying to make up meaningful activities just to tick the right boxes for CFE. Am i the only one who thinks this?
     
  2. cochrane1964

    cochrane1964 New commenter

    I thought you meant the Indian Defence League! No - IDL rarely works in Secondary due to the structure of the 33 week timetable. Any IDL projects have been box ticking with a wee bit of Geography her, Science there and literacy, numeracy and Health and Well-being tagged on. Very disappointed in this myopia.
     
  3. I assume you mean interdisciplinary learning? What a farce. It's not only going to cause dilution of secondary education, it's already gutted what there was of science education in primary, which has been subsumed into the various "topics" around which we are supposed to structure all our teaching.
    Thanks to CfE, science in primary, already underemphasised as far as I've seen in the past six years (compared to Canada) is now pretty much taught on a hit-or-miss basis, with huge gaps in both skills and understanding left for someone else to fill.
    As usual, I'm astonished that parents put up with this---how passive and uninformed are Scottish parents, in the name of God?
     
  4. If we had time and opportunities to talk to colleagues and find genuine links, interdisciplinary work could be great. The imposed shoehorning of different subject outcomes into an ill fitting partnership does nobody any good.
     
  5. Who has endured the Rapid Response Engineering Challenge? We did it 2 years ago- it's all about a hurricane in Honduras. The organiser gave me a CD and said, "Everything you need is here- it's from LTS". I should have guessed- when I opened the folder marked "English", it was entirely empty. When I raised this with the organiser, he suggested that I try- with S1- "Honduran poetry". We cobbled together a piece of sh*t, which even that we had trouble doing, as the kids kept saying, "Aw no, no' effin' Honduras again". However, it was deemed a success, as on the last day, activities day, "everyone seemed to be having a good time". Of course, this would have been the case had we handed out **** mags that day too. Guess what? We start again tomorrow. With the same piece of sh*t we used last time.
     
  6. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Established commenter

    One of the ill conceived ideas of CFE that all learning has to be "joined up". Why? Because some civil servant in Edinburgh decided it sounds good.
    Secondary schools are all about subject specialists - history teachers shouldn't be teaching fractions, science teachers shouldn't be teaching woodworking skills and English teachers shouldn't be going over the periodic table.
    Most of the IDL projects are very contrived and a load of sh*te, purely to tick boxes - lets do a topic on Scotland for instance that everybody can write ****** lessons on
     
  7. misterroy

    misterroy New commenter

    I peacefully left my dept meeting when we were to discuss it because the ideas were so sh1te, In my absense they managed enough to tick the box.
     
  8. I am in total agreement with what all your contributors have said. What a complete waste of a subject specialist's time for such a load of meaningless p---h! My question is : Is there anybody out there who DOES favour IDL in Secondary Schools and if so...WHY?
     
  9. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    .....wondered how long it would take to lower the tone [​IMG]
     
  10. My niece gave us a wonderful example of her content-free education recently. We were preparing an order of service for a funeral, and in designing the booklet and preparing it for the printer, she showed considerable skill (or, as we now have to say, skills). However, when I told her we'd be singing Psalm 127, she typed in "Sam 127". What was significant was her reaction: "How was I to know? I just thought it was someone out the Bible". The Apostle Sam. She's got a 2:1, by the way.
     
  11. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    Don't you just love them?
     
  12. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I get your point but I know what a psalm is and how to spell it. I wasn't taught this at school but learned from seeing the word in church. Is knowledge of the components of a religious book that important in an increasingly secular world?
     
  13. Yes it is because we are all being driven down the route of ignoring the spiritual side of existence. We're not just like the animals, we have higher levels of consciousness and it's very sad to see that deliberately ignored. Even if there is no religious belief on someone's part it's helpful to understand the world you live in, as the case above highlights.
     
  14. I am not religious myself but I do agree with Delilah0.
     
  15. To broaden the argument, how can you understand literature, history, geography, sociology, science, philosophy et al, without a knowledge of religion? But IDL won't provide that, because you'll only get what you need for that specific topic- in Honduras, they're Catholic (I presume), although I doubt you'll investigate the extent to which the tenets of the Catholic faith help people endure or understand hurricanes. What you need is wide education, so that you can apply what you know to new situations which arrive. It's called being educated, but is very far from the BGE currently being promoted, which is about "skills" (mostly very low level) over knowledge, even though the acquisition and application of knowledge is the greatest of the skills.
     
  16. And those in power know this. Here's my take:
    Modern economies need highly-skilled but docile, compliant workers. What they don't need so much is knowledgeable people.
    People who know things---especially things they are not supposed to know---can get ideas. Ideas make people uppity, make them aspire to have and do and be more, make them want things above their station. People "in the know"---people who have knowledge--- can cause all kinds of trouble for business and governments, now and historically. 'Twas ever thus, from ancient times to the present.
    The solution, in the view of governments and business, is to educate people to be skilled---that is, able to do all sorts of things that are valuable to economic development, while at the same time keeping them ignorant: that is, not knowing what's important to know, and not knowing that they don't know it. Voila: CfE!
    Knowledge is power, Give people a wealth of skills along with a dearth of knowledge and you'll keep them weak, docile, and utterly controllable. Meanwhile, the power classes claim knowledge as their preserve by right and exercise that claim through their private education systems, for example.
     
  17. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Now, now! That'll be enough of that Bolshie talk! Be about your business there, colonial chappie!

     
  18. Dom, vive la revolution!
    [​IMG]
     
  19. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    CG, couldn't agree more (with your longer post) [​IMG]
     
  20. Not entirely - they can skill up workers pretty quickly,. To get the docile, compliant people, they look for those who can memorise lots of information for an exam then recite it parrot fashion. They are the ultimate malleable worker - they'll do anything if there is a reward at the end of it.

    People who THINK get ideas,. People who memorise stuff for exams get good exam results then forget everything they've memorised within a year. Thats the sort of worker you need - mind full of their job, and not of how volcanoes are formed, or how the egyptians developed irrigation.

    But your way works too.....

    It's all about how you perceive things.
    Only a small part of my knowledge came from school. The largest part of my knowledge came from personal research, which included using skills which were taught in school or university, like how to use a library, how to take notes, and how to cross reference and check the validity of findings. How often do we teach these skills to our pupils? Pupils still think that "taking notes" means copying off the board.
    Knowledge is power? Nice soundbite, but everyone has knowledge (or access to knowledge) these days. To have power you need to have something the majority doesn't have. Which is where yer skills come in, in particular the ability to use the knowledge you have to reason and solve problems.
     

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