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ICT future debate

Discussion in 'Computing and ICT' started by sydbarrett, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Gove is at it again.
    Currently: "There are five subjects which are compulsory under the national curriculum for all age groups - English, ICT, mathematics, PE and science."
    Future: "All schools will have to teach English, maths, science and PE with experts to advise on what should be focused on."
    Spot the missing one out. What do you think this means for our subject? Sensible responses only please.
  2. Gove is at it again.
    Currently: "There are five subjects which are compulsory under the national curriculum for all age groups - English, ICT, mathematics, PE and science."
    Future: "All schools will have to teach English, maths, science and PE with experts to advise on what should be focused on."
    Spot the missing one out. What do you think this means for our subject? Sensible responses only please.
  3. tonyuk

    tonyuk Occasional commenter

    Ahhh but then we have the Bac so actually its 2xscience, 1 MFL (or ancient language jolly hockey sticks!), Maths, English, and Humanities + of course PE so the kids are fit even after shoving 18 burgers down their mouths a day......oh joy!
    And what next well I suspect we will see a buy back of sports fields so polo can be put on the curriculum along with shooting and hunting and other public school activities that Gove knows so well....and why so that all the oiks can have a proper education (not worked in the past we still have no plumbers etc as its essential that all kids have to be doing academic subjects regardless of what they actually want to do/can do)
  4. scruffycat

    scruffycat New commenter

    What other subjects can you teach.... I could go back into humanities even ebtter XC nonense will be fun would it not :(
  5. I think it all depends on how well and established ICT is in the given school.
    For our school I don't think it'll make a huge difference, we have a high percentage pass rate, we get extra GCSEs for pupils and the department is small. If you're in a similar situation I can't see there being much change.
    I think it will effect those schools who teach ICT as a descreet subject in KS3 and as an option in KS4, I'm sure it will mean a lot of these schools switching to descreet ICT throughout the whole school.
  6. Oooops sorry for the typos:
  7. Looking over the key stage 3 scheme of work yesterday, the DH remarked, "most of this is just teaching English, but not very well." If an 'about me' PowerPoint was presented as a piece of year 7 English work it would be hammered.
  8. tonyuk

    tonyuk Occasional commenter

    and I would reply that all subjects teach English so lets get rid of that to as it could be delivered Xcurric [​IMG]
  9. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    The point is we're teaching the skills to do this as well as the English. Yes an About Me PPT would be slammed in English, and quite rightly so as this is pitched at the level of a 7 year old, however, understanding of audience and purpose should inform and drive the standards used for the presentation as well as demonstartion of new skills learned (if any using PPT).
    This is where our problem truely lies. Due to the way the curriculum has been written it appears that it is a simple re-hash of other subjects. This then leads non-specialists to turn round and to start talking about x-curricular delivery as a way of teaching two subjects at once, and so saving money.
    For us to have a truely viable future someone needs to lead us from the front. Becta failed. NAACE doesn't appear to do anything but take subs and money for a tick sheet dealing with ICT-effectiveness in schools (NOT the lead we need). Who is going to stand up for us, and prevent the travisity that was GNVQs, Diplomas, old Nationals, KS3 online testing, etc, etc, etc, etc.?
  10. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    LMFTO - local expression "Laughed My F*%$£$g T%ts Off"
  11. Except that they don't. English is the language of teaching but not the subject being taught. Not something you'd expect an ICT teacher to understand.
  12. tonyuk

    tonyuk Occasional commenter

    Correct in the same way that English teachers do not understand ICT - or at least how to do things "properly" if I had a £ for every English ppt I have seen with wordart, loads of text, animations all over the place, anoying sounds etc the list goes on - not that I am knocking English but I think you have missed my comment as you can not see my tongue planted firmly in my cheek!!!
  13. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    I've said it before and I'll say it again (premature senility?) but I think it went wrong when we allowed ourselves to be led down the wrong path by the ICT Strategy. We became a mere service industry to English, Maths, and Science instead of being allowed to develop our own identity and subject culture based on the unque history and development of ICT over many years.

    And bloody Powerpoint should be made illegal.
  14. Whilst this is interesting and sometimes valid. For what reason should English or ICT blast a year 7 about me presentation, unless I'm missing some inherent lack of value in being able to clearly express/use intra personal skills, your own values and thoughts. If anything the challenge may be too great for the age/ability range. If all my year 7's produce is a list of facts in any powerpoint, knowing their abilities, I'd also ask of myself what is wrong in the teaching, not just think it's either them, the topic or the subject!
  15. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious New commenter

    I think if schools desert ICT as a subject en masse, we'll just end up with a government in 10 years time saying "We need to improve the computer skills of our school-leavers!".
    Teachers of other subjects know their stuff very well, but to be frank, some of them know sod all about what computers are capable of. Even PowerPoint, the most overkilled piece of software there is, is capable of so much more than a simple presentation if you know where to look (mazes have engaged even the most jaded student).
    Knowledge of spreadsheets (at least pre-GCSE), computer graphics and web design is likely to wither except in the cases when the teacher is engaged with the software (or ICT stays as a subject, of course!).
    We'll just have to see. I don't think we'll see the end of ICT just yet as a subject since schools often have too much invested in the hardware and staff. When that hardware is due to be replaced, however...
  16. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    Hump3 does not like ICT teachers, and has said in another thread that ICT teachers are bullies, so I need to be careful countering this (ie without my usual sarcasm!).
    Yes we all teach in English, but as part of my role as an ICT teacher I also look at correct spelling and grammar usage (surely you would agree the foundations of English as a subject, just as vocab and grammar as the foundations of MFL teaching), I look at their use of language for specific purposes (persusive writing being just one example - even if it is just a letter or memo as part of Unit 1 of the Nationals) and I look at the way they deliver information via presentations.
    Now these are all aspects of teaching English as a subject, but in reality the level that an ICT teacher would look at these aspects would be equivalent to that of a KS2 pupil, not KS3 or 4, in much the same way that an English teacher would create an unsuitable KS2 PPT with the same pupils (I used to be an Upper KS2 teacher, so I know what I'm talking about as I've seen this happen in our school)
    By even considering this, we are actually considering the even further dumbing down of standards across the board that do no service to us as professional, do no service to the kids we want to help and develop, and do no service to the community at large when we have to pass skilled work out to other countries as we don't have a developed skills base.

  17. The first sentence is pretty much spot on. SLT will want to steer the curriculum to get good Bacc results and BTeC/National ICT will become less important as a means of bumping up the statistics. Where there is good discrete ICT in KS3 it will thrive, if not, it may lose curriculum time.
    In KS4 there will be a loss of uptake from ICT in the options to humanities and languages amongst the academically stronger students, though option ICT will survive in some form for most, especially as a means of contributing to a decent portfolio of qualifications for the non Bacc students.
    Core ICT in KS4 will probably drift away. My view is to hang on until the next government takes power and hope that it is recognised that ICT skills are a necessity in today's world and that the best way to develop them is by having ICT lessons and encouraging the skills developed in them to be applied across the curriculum.
    I can also see the proper vocational courses in keyboarding becoming stronger, as the quasi-vocational courses fade - their lack of statistical value will become less of a factor as the Bacc takes over the league tables.
    On the other hand my second subject is Maths...
  18. Sorry - forgot to quote
    "I think it all depends on how well and established ICT is in the given school."
  19. Completely agree here. How many ICT teachers do you know who were trained in other subjects? I have nothing against them personally, but it does mean that the ICT curriculum remains basic so that the teacher can actually teach it. Bringing in the more challenging and interesting parts of computing (robotics, programming etc.) will cause many current ICT teachers to struggle and results would fall for the first year or two while both students and teachers adjust. Though in the long term computing understanding and skills would improve, schools would have to sacrifice the prop of current ICT courses that bring in great results and a ridiculous amount of GCSE equivalents.
  20. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    So by this logic you assume that all people who deliver another suject don't bother to learn anything about it. I think maybe the brush you are tarring all with needs to be narrowed. The idea that we as non ICT/computing graduates (DJP has an O level C grade in Computer Studies) can not learn your skill set is naive. However I do fully accept that most don't [​IMG]

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