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I want to teach in secondary.

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by hardbastard, May 8, 2008.

  1. hardbastard

    hardbastard New commenter

    The PGCE FE is near-worthless. It doesn't offer QTS and therefore won't qualify you to teach in a school. There is no "top up" qualification to turn your FE PGCE into a 'proper' one so the only option you have is to do a whole new PGCE (but a secondary one). This will cost time and take at least a year to complete. Technically speaking, a school COULD still employ you to teach maths with your FE PGCE but you would be on an unqualified teacher's pay spine.
  2. I was accepted into a secondary school to teach Business with a PGCE FE. I was paid on the unqualified scale but only for the three months that it took me to get together enough evidence for the GTP portfolio. I then had QTS and was paid on the mainscale just like everyone else - was paid at M5 for the remainder of the year and then M6 the year after. Relatively painless process, - no need to do another PGCE.
  3. Some schools will pay you on the qualified scale if you have sufficient experience with the PGCE FE although you won't be able to cross threshold without QTS. As a lot of schools find it difficult to get maths teachers you are probably in a good position
  4. Hi,

    I am just completing a PGCE in FE - now called DTLLS - diploma to teach in the lifelong learning sector. Once I get a job, I have to apply for QTLS - qualified to teach in the learning and skills sector. I have 5 years to get the evidence together for this then I get my license to teach in the sector. Perhaps this new reform in FE training will solve and allow teachers to work in either school or college, do you think? I was told be the IFL that it is aime to eventually close the gap in the payscale. Who knows, I hope it does.
  5. I disagree with hardbastard's view that the PGCE FE is 'worthless in a school and that there is no top up course except doing another secondary PGCE', as due to recent government policies, such as increasing the leaving age to 18 and the increase of schools having their own 6th forms. For example, I obtained a PGCE (post-compulsory) from the Institute of education on 1st August 2005 and am currently employed as a part-time Psychology teacher at a good all-girl's convent school in Essex and got a job as full-time Psychology teacher at a good comprehensive school in Essex. In fact, during the teaching part of my interview, the head of psychology who has been teaching at the school for 16 years said that he was impressed with my knowledge of the subject and enthusiasm for teaching the students and that although I was very nervous (which showed keeness for working at the school), I had presence in the classroom. Not bad for someone with a 'worthless' PGCE in a school, don't you think?

    In fact, the whole issue of FE teachers teaching in schools is a grey area.

    Some schools won't touch you with a barge pole if you have a PGCE in FE!

    Others, like mine, will take you on and pay you as an unqualified lecturer until you obtain QTS (I'm currently paid at the highest spinal point of the unqualified lecturer scale-10 due to my experience in FE which is only slightly less per hour than what I earned as an FE teacher). There are 2 ways of doing this:

    1. Do the GTP programme

    2. Do the University of Gloucestershire's distance learning Assessment only Based QTS course, if like me you have had at least 2 years teaching experience by the time you're assessed on this course.

    Both of these courses invlove teaching your specialist subjects across 2 consecutive key stages. In my case, I teach A-Level psychology (KS5), so for both courses, I would have to teach A-Level Psychology/Sociology and GCSE Sociology/Psychology. As I'll be a full-time psychology teacher and the school offers GCSE sociology but not Psychology (KS4 course), my course requirement would be to teach A-Level psychology plus GCSE Sociology.

    As in my case, because you're teaching a specialist subject, I believe that many schools would welcome you and help you to obtain QTS because they are so desparate for specialists. Also, as a Maths teacher, you may also be entitled to either an FE/secondary 'golden hello' award (not both, I think), so it's well worth applying!

    More info can be found on the TDA website.

    Lots of luck!

  6. PS. ali-alex-QTS and QTLS are completely different qualified statuses for 2 completely different sectors, so unfortunately, the QTLS does NOT qualify you to work in a school (I checked this out with the lifelong learning uk advisory service). To be paid as a qualified teacher in a school, you have to have QTS. QTLS means diddly squat in a school-in this sense hardbastard's 'near worthless' comment is right. I think that IfL will also adjust the pay scale gap in the sense that having an equivalent to QTS and the GTC in FE would 'justify' an increase FE lecturer pay, as it would become a more 'professional' sector like school teachers. personally, I think that the QTLS gap only makes the grey area between teaching the same age group in different settings even greyer!
  7. I do not want to be to heavy and nasty but, hardbastard is just talking complete rubbish. In fact, I will consider you to be very stupid and completely ignorant about the depth of the Post-16 PGCE training. All graduates with Post-16 PGCE are university graduates with at least a Bachelor's degree and 95% of the time also possess at least a GCSE 'C' grade in English and Maths.

    The answer to notsogenius' question is that you can still be accepted to each in schools with your Post-16 PGCE but, will be required to undertake an 'Portfolio Assessment' which in most cases should last no more than 3 months. There are times people make the choice to do a Post-16 training due to personal choice which can either be as a result of the acute behavioural problems encountered by children in inner London schools.

    The truth is that I initially qualified with the PGCE (FE/Post-16) qualification in 2000. I decided to make the move to a secondary Sixth Form school in 2005 and within 3 months I was fully qualified with QTS from Goldsmiths as the DRB. In fact, there was no need for me to take the equivalency GCSE tests in Maths and English as I was fully qualified in that capacity.

    In terms of salary, I was classified as an unqualified teacher but, was paid the equivalent on UPS1 salary as my salary from my previous sixth form college was exactly on UPS1 scale. The other reason for this is the fact that I had lots of experience and was even experienced in the subject area than the already Head of Department (ICT).

    Notsogenius, make up your mind as to what you intend to do and forget about negative comments posted by stupid individuals like hardbastard. This individual need to educate himself about the legality and regulations governing Schools and FE.
  8. Hardbastard -



    (Sorry everyone but HB is really pi$$ing me off)
  9. Unfortunately, Lynsita, it is an issue of supply and demand. The reason pay and holidays in Sixth Form Colleges are the same or better than at secondary schools is that Sixth Form College teachers mostly have QTS and mostly teach subjects that are taught in secondary schools. Thus if Sixth Form College pay fell behind school pay the Sixth Form College teachers could vote with their feet and get jobs in secondary schools. Lecturers of vocational subjects at further education colleges will not be in this position, because QTLS will still not give such lecturers QTS for school purposes and the subjects they teach are not, by and large, in demand in schools.

    lynsita at 09 May 2008 22:37 wrote:
    'I think that IfL will also adjust the pay scale gap in the sense that having an equivalent to QTS and the GTC in FE would 'justify' an increase FE lecturer pay, as it would become a more 'professional' sector like school teachers.'

  10. laucat

    laucat New commenter

    Wow, have to say I'm very jealous that it's been so easy for you! I would love to teach in a secondary school but in Scotland it's either do a full year's PGDE or don't ever teach in a school - their way or the highway. I have a TQFE but cannot even get a lecturing job in a college now!! Can you offer me any advice as at present am working as an FE Classroom Assistant when all I wanna do is teach!!
  11. laucat, you've resurrected an fairly old thread, lots of the previous posters are no longer here on TES!
    If you have a look on the first couple of pages you'll find a few debates going on that might be useful!
    Good luck!

  12. laucat

    laucat New commenter

    Wow, 2008??!! See what you mean ha ha, shows how often I'm on here! Ok thanks!


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