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I still find it incredible that a YR teacher can be paid the same as an English Lit teacher at A Level.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by The Red Heron, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. They are two roles in teaching you just can't compare - Foundation teaching is heavily focused on child development issues including socialization, and requires a teacher trained in this area for truly effective teaching, whereas I would hope A-level teaching IS precisely about subject knowledge and requires a similarly 'expert' teacher in that respect and a completely different approach. You have rather assumed that primary teachers are less academic than secondary or A-level teachers. That's not true in my experience - Astrophysics from Cambridge anybody for example? How useful is that in primary school? Not reallybut the teacher is highly effective with FOundation children.

    I'm never quite sure why posters try and open up this argument of 'we are better than you'. Teaching gets enough bashing from the tabloids, politicians and public that surely we don't need to do it to each other? I can't see what anyone has to gain from it, except perhaps shoring up inner insecurities?
    We all have different approaches, different skills, different interests and different aims, yet we are all complementary parts of this wonderful, life changing thing called education; without one part, the whole would not be complete and the children would lose out.
    So let's drop the division seeking and points scoring.

  2. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    kirsi.i am prepared to teach when i supply in nursery..but so often we are not asked to!
    i actively do work with children and give full consideration of thier needs and demands, but when your a day to day , and a male arriving in, they seem to think its like dad arriving.
    i dont understimate the amount of work that goes n...and i must say her i DO NOT like many of the changes which are being foisted upon teachers and which I do not feel contrbute tot he child and their education.
    i would be the first to admit the planning alone is huge and organistaion is always a headache and if i where to staff ful time within that EY i would need to undertake massive training,Even in KS1 and 2 the sheer un-necessary paper work arriving is a battle i dont want.One reason i stay on supply is that i really cant be ar sed with such a silly system,although i have read the reasons and logic behind some of it.In the end its more goverment statistics than teaching the child.

  3. In a similar vein, when I left primary school to take an MA degree, the general reaction from parents was "Oh, so you will be able to teach secondary then, will you, and be promoted?" Interesting reaction!

  4. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I am sure that those covering in reception do teach - most people with any instinct towards teaching would find it difficult to spend a day with a group of children of this age and not teach in any way. But a day-to-day supply teacher in reception is just not going to be aware of the developmental needs of every child, and so won't be able to deal with any of the assessment, progression, etc.

  5. I have never been able to understand why people assume the older the children you teach the better you must be as a teacher! I have heard of this kind of thing before where year 6 teachers are given sympathy for moving to younger classes, but why? The reason pre-school and reception is called the foundation stage is because it lays the foundations for the rest of a childs learning. I have worked in early foundation stage for 8 years and am now moving to primary but that doesn't mean I feel I am better than my reception collegues.

    I have respect for all teachers regardless of the age they teach. We all chose the age group we wish to teach and therefore have our own specialities. I chose the primary years but I have amazing respect for those teachers who teach my own children and are helping them achieve their potential to be able to go out into the world as adults. I have enough trouble getting my teenager to do things at home, I would really struggle with the grumps and tantrums all day at school too!
  6. madwoman

    madwoman New commenter

    I am secondary and in no way could I teach primary -

    we all have different skills - yes I am quite sure that a primary teacher would struggle to teach my A level kids (and the behaviour in my school is appauling) BUT I really appreciate what they do and there is no way I could cope with 30 4 yr olds! That is my idea of hell.
  7. Perhaps it is a matter of how much intellect you need for these jobs. Perhaps most reception teachers have first class degrees, but they certainly don't use them while they are on their hands and knees plying in sandpits and teaching a group of little children to count to 3.

    In the case of most other jobs, the extent to which your degrees and additional education are <u>used</u> in the actual job usually has an impact on the salary, e.g.

    Lawyer vs. secretary

    Doctor vs. nurse

    Architect vs. builder

    I consider teaching to be a rather practical job when teaching younger children - it's all about communication, dealing with everyday situations and having some common sense. Once you get to A level it actually becomes academic.

  8. Your post sounds as if you are saying that Reception teachers need no intellect.
  9. tangerinecat

    tangerinecat New commenter

    Snowfairy - I assume from the lofty tone of your post you are teaching KS3 or above.

    Teachers KS2 and below spend a lot of their time every year researching numerous topics to cover the wide curriculum - everything from teeth to Vikings to volume.

    It's not all finger paints and sandpits.
    And 'a group of little children' invariably includes the non-English speakers. the elective mute, the nose-picker, the one who is only interested in telling you about his cat, the one who's had an 'accident', the undiagnosed SEN...

  10. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    When working with students in my present job, I am often faced with having to think on my feet about a whole variety of subjects from "A' level to degree level. The suject matter can be very complex and includes many scientific concepts and processes.
    Having worked in both areas, I can confidently say that it does require a complex grasp of many different elements to effectively teach children of this age.Describing maths as teaching kids to count up to 3 is a gross misunderstanding what is involved. It actually takes lots of expertise,knowledge,understanding , as well as planning and assessment, to teach early years mathematical concepts effectively.
  11. I've not read all of the replies on this thread, first few pages and last two, so apologies if I repeat some of other pots, but seems to me an incredibly condescending argument is occurring with an original poster who has written absolute drivel. This thread should be relabelled 'I can't believe people with this attitude are allowed to influence the views and opinions of young people'.

    A level English, or anything for that matter requires the students in the class to be able to read, write, comprehend, empathise. Who taught them to do this in the first place? It wasn't GCSE, or KS3.

    I'm a secondary school teacher who sees the fruits of the labour of our primary colleagues. It is also very interesting to see staff panic when a kid who speaks no English, only for a primary trained colleague to be their first port of call for help and assistance.

    The attitudes of some people are unprofessional and ill thought out. There is a definite 'look down your nose attitude' from KS5 to KS4 to KS3 to KS1/2. Perhaps this it the reason so many of our pupils have great difficulty at transition stages of their education, as a result of the I'm better than your last teacher attitude displayed by some arrogant 'professionals'.
  12. Godmeister

    Godmeister Occasional commenter

    Not quite sure where the OP has now gone - clearly wasn't expecting this sort of overwhelming reaction to their post. Also I don't quite understand why such an inflammatory post was ever required in the first place?
  13. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    Think he's on his way to Timbuktu - he can't say he wasn't warned.

    I have a feeling he knew exactly what response he would get.

  14. <h4>See post 72 - oh, and I believe the OP is himself a primary school teacher (willing to stand corrected though!). </h4>
  15. yes, has stated this on other forums... and female it seems too.

  16. The Red Heron

    The Red Heron New commenter

    I have already stated that my opinion is my own and I stand corrected by the large majority of posters who are enraged that such a thing could be thought or said. I wonder what jo public would say if asked who should earn more infant teachers or secondary, not a loaded question just interested to see what the response would be.
  17. <h4>Ohhhkay, I could have sworn Heron is male, but apologies Heron if I'm wrong!
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    jo public is usually pretty damned dense:he always thinks he knows all about schools/teaching too because he went to school so that makes him an expert.
    Sort of like supply staff who think they know all about a sector, subject or key stage from a day spent on supply?

  19. As a parent I would be tempted to say the Reception teacher. Looking after 30 4-5 year olds all day is a very responsible job. And not just looking after them, but teaching them to read and write at the same time...

    Teaching A level may require a more academic approach, but that's just as much from the pupils/students as from the teacher. I very much hope that, by the time she's 16, my daughter will be pretty much responsible for her own learning. The teacher will be there to guide her and mark her efforts, but the majority of the responsibility lies with the students.

    However, we live in a society that does not value children and family life, so that view may well be in the minority.
  20. The Red Heron

    The Red Heron New commenter

    Its jo public seren that pays our wages through their contributions, so I think I would listen to them. I dont know all about anything in education, except Id rather teach yr,1,2 than y11, 12,13-its a pretty simple debate. others would prefer it the other way round. Leave it at that.

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