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I still find it incredible that a YR teacher can be paid the same as an English Lit teacher at A Level.

Discussion in 'Personal' started by The Red Heron, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. I teach English at the level you seem to hold in such high regard. It is hard work (the marking!) but you'd have to pay me twice my salary before I'd even think about teaching Primary. I can waffle on about Chaucer at length but I don't have a clue about teaching basic literacy - something I seem to be faced with more and more often - never mind anything else and I've not the concentration span you need for keeping track of exploring infants!
     
  2. In reply to the OP, all I have to say is you knew what the job entailed when you began; you knew how much you would be paid and it is your career choice. If you're not happy with the amount of pay you get, do something else.
     
  3. bumblingbee

    bumblingbee New commenter

    It's like building a house. Good foundations are important. Without them your house will wobble and fall down.

    In our school (primary) it's considered to be harder to go down the year groups than up. I don't fancy teaching Early Yeas at all.
     
  4. bumblingbee

    bumblingbee New commenter

    Tsk! Years
     
  5. A day in reception is easy. You won't have spent hours planning full provision, you won't be dealing with the home side of things, you won't be compiling endless observation notes, pictures etc.
    Spend a month actually teaching reception and then you can have a valid opinion.

     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I did say it wouldn't take you five minutes....

    Last week you were crowing about how wonderful supply is then you found out that it has its down-side.
    Now you're an expert on what's involved in teaching infants based on the fun you had today.
    How to win friends and influence people....

    I'm primary trained, worked for over a decade in sebd and am now a secondary teacher - over 15 years of experience of all sectors. I also come into contact with teachers in all sectors dealing with concerns over workload etc.
    One of the main reasons that teachers get sh*t on from a great height is the lack of solidarity and support from other teachers - when arrogance is added to the mix it's easy to divide and conquer.
    Without the yr teacher there are no A level teachers, no-one has a degree. It's that simple.

     
  7. What's a YR teacher?

     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    I dunno either - but I'm assuming that we're talking about the wee ones.
     
  9. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    Yes, could I add to this that many teachers finish at 3.00 or earlier and have about 12 weeks of holiday.
    Shouldn't this mean the job as a whole is easy compared to jobs with less holidays and longer working days?
    Is teaching an easy job? What makes it difficult?

    Why did Heron find this day easy?

    Heron: if you taught this class for a longer period of time - say 2 terms of maternity leave, what would your own expectations be?
    What would you hope to achieve with the class and how would you achieve this?

    Can you summerise your aims and objectives for every subject and tell me how you would achieve all those goals?
    How would you deal with a child who was having difficulties settling into the class ad crying for long periods of time?
    Or the child having difficulty aquiring language skills?
    How do you get them to write a simple sentence?
    Encourage the reluctant writer?

    The child who was showing signs of autism
    ADHD?
    The child who react by biting, scratching or fighting?
    The child who you may suspect is being abused or neglected at home?
    How would you secure a concrete understanding of early mathematical concepts for varying levels of understanding?
    What is a good way of teaching basic science concepts ?
    Or art - what is good practice in this?
    music?
    DT?
    History?
    Geography?
    Colour?
    Alphabet?
    seasons?
    Increase vocabulary?
    Teaching the concept of sharing?
    Caring for others?

    How would you organise groups to allow independance but ensure that learning is going on ?
    How would you structure your day?
    Organise clearing up?
    Use of TA's?
    Special needs teaching programmes for 1 to 1?
    Visual or auditory problems?

    Increase attention span to expand on the average 5 minutes?
    Can you justify what the children are learning when they use the constrution equipment?
    Role play area?
    Outdoor play?
    Improve fine motor skills?
    Gross motor skills?

    IT-how do you ensure that they are progressing in this subject and having equal access to the software?
    Spelling - how will you teach them to spell new words?
    PE - have you covered all the foundations of this area with consistancy to ensure progression?
    Homework?
    Parental concerns?
    What will you do with the child who does not listen/cannot concentrate/shows behaviour problems?
    Nits?
    Crying?
    Snot?
    Wee?
    Even worse ...poo ...it happens


    Short answers will do. Thanks. Not for me but for our friendly, neighbourhood ofsted inspectors and to ensure you don't get your butt kicked all the way to Timbuktu.

    It can be argued whether it is an intellectual job or not , some of the understanding behind child development could be seen in the light.
    It certainly requires a large amount of skill and knowledge.... and energy to do the above things all the time, every day, ever hour (apart from PPA), year after year, in the climate of constant change and high expectation from parents, headteachers and inspectors.




     
  10. rach1968

    rach1968 New commenter

    I have a degree in English Literature and would love the chance to teach to secondary age pupils to use what I have learned. Could I teach them Shakespeare, or Chaucer or Dickens - of course I could and I would have the subject knowledge to do so. Would I want to - no way! I don't feel I would be able to cope with that age group. I take my hat off to Secondary teachers - they are great and do a fantastic job (I have 2 children - one who left school this year and one who is in Year 8 and I wouldn't like to teach them or anyone else that age)!

    I teach KS1 and KS2 but have worked in a reception class on supply and during my training - it is not walk in the park! I think there are things about all phases that we would be unable to cope with or understand without working in that sector for a period of time. Perhaps that's why we choose different phases.
     
  11. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    Reception Year

     
  12. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Moon penny i dont think i could have remembered all that.....but by god I recognise doing it ..even on supply as i do get involved with the kids, and do attempt all the obs and work required by the school or teacher.
     
  13. midnight_angel

    midnight_angel Senior commenter

    *Applauds moonpenny*



    All the reasons why, despite my superior knowledge at such a superior level as Heron is suggesting, I cannot and do not want to teach reception. Similarly, all the reasons, among many others, why I admire anyone who can do this and does. Primary schools are amazing, as many have said, I wouldn't be able to help students get their GCSEs or ALevels (and all the other qualifications on that list, dipolmas, etc) if my primary colleagues did not lay these foundations for me first. I'm sure most secondary teachers of all subjects would agree with me.
     
  14. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    As I said to another poster earlier today - we need to separate the delivery of a lesson in a satisfactory manner from the wider job called "teacher".
     
  15. I am a reception teacher but have also taught keystage 1,2, A'level, Btec, In a deaf school, in an autistic school, in a PMLD school, in an EFL summer school. Why would you think R was any easier? every role has its own challenges
     
  16. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    One of the worst thing for me about teaching reception was when I had spent a long time planning an activity only to have the scribbled squiggle returned to me with such speed that even superman would have been beaten.
    The bliss of moving to year 2 where you could get some of them to spend a whole lesson completing a piece of work and they were mostly toilet trained.

     
  17. Ah, reception year, thanks. I'm assuming that's like nursery school.

     
  18. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    Oldsome and Angel - that list (excuse typos - was typing fast as memories were returning to me fast and furious) was the tip of a very big iceburg which, unfortunately, appears to be growing more and more rather than melting.
     
  19. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    I always remember my primary school HT father's reaction to the sympathy expressed by parents for the Yr 6 teacher who moved to Reception. They saw it as a demotion. Dad recognized the importance of the Reception teacher's role and was amused by their ignorance. He, by the way, trained to teach secondary history but was waylaid into primary, liked it, and stayed.
    Don't underestimate the intelligence [or workload] of people who choose to teach young children.
    If you want to see what is going on in 'Early Years' at the moment, by the way, you should dip a toe into the EY forum. There is great dissatisfaction with the way things are going.
    inky [MA cantab in Eng Lit, for what that's worth] X



     
  20. Like most posters have pointed out primary must be incredibly demanding dealing with same children all day every day and having lots of trivial issues to deal with (by trivial I mean the nits, and snotty nose thing). I think primary teachers have a lot of patience and a lot of skill - I have trouble making 14 -18 year olds sit still and complete a task so I dread to imagine what it is like with young children. Also primary school is the basis for that child's education - if the teacher interests those children then hopefully they should start secondary school eager to learn so us secondary teachers have the primary teachers to thank for so many things.
     

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