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I should have permanently excluded....but didn’t

Discussion in 'Headteachers' started by Steve5737, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    in other words decision made based on the emotions and self image of the managers.

    Almost always a bad decision in my experience
  2. biscuitmonster1

    biscuitmonster1 New commenter

    Sorry Ive only just seen this reply.

    She is nearly 13 and in a dsp unit in a mainstream school. We are finding she is copying the stimming and behaviour responses if the other asd boys.
    She came home two weeks ago with a very pronounced stammer after a new girl to the school was put in the same classes she is in until a timetable had been sorted for the new girl.
  3. biscuitmonster1

    biscuitmonster1 New commenter

    Too weak? I would be outraged and indeed have at the mention of fixed term exclusion. The child you describe sounds similar to my daughter but incredibly violent.
    We soon saw a pattern emerge to the outbursts and they occurred, still do, in situations where she doesn’t understand what is expected of her, what is going to happen next or she doesn’t understand the question or what has been said. For example she strangled the TA, three bricks and chairs at the HT, ripped the wall displays in a classroom, swore and threw bricks at any adult who approached her. This was because in a lesson she had been told to draw a picture of character from a book showing that they were scared! She didn’t understand how. Eventually the teacher listened to me when I said it had to be step by step. She is visually impaired which makes it harder to pick up on social cues etc.
    But I wasn’t happy at the mention of exclusion.
    To exclude a child for behaviour they can’t always control is completely unfair on that child
  4. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Maybe, but schools also have a duty to staff and other pupils, to secure "the education or welfare of ... others in the school" [to quote DFE statutory guidance]. Staff have a right to a safe workplace and other pupils a right to learn without excessive disruption. Exclusion decisions always have to balance the interest of the excluded child and the interests of the rest of the school community. It can't be all about the excluded child.
  5. dodie102

    dodie102 Occasional commenter

    Not a head so probably not qualified but I do have experience in a mainstream school teaching a core subject for many years.

    There are some emotional responses here based on very personal experiences but I have to debate whether you can always allow children to stay when 'they can't control their behaviour' - where would that line stop? We've had pupils assaulted, classes evacuated and death threats to staff from SEND pupils at the acute end of the spectrum who do have a legitimate statement and diagnosis. Every effort has been made to include, accommodate and teach these individuals but there is a limit of what the school can do.

    As Rott Weiler states the Head has a duty of care both to the school and the pupil concerned. At secondary we do need to prepare them for the outside world and I'm not convinced that making allowances every time would achieve that. Of course it's not ideal but I know from experience at my school just how reluctant SLT are to exclude but sometimes they do have the prioritise the needs of the whole school. I can assure you that it is never a decision taken lightly but talking about 'outrage' how would you feel if it was your child assaulted?

    Kevin your techniques sound marvellous but forgive me if I see the irony when I read your posts - many of my colleagues feel we all ready jump through enough hoops! With a heavy timetable, a class of 30 and a packed curriculum there is a limit...;)
  6. biscuitmonster1

    biscuitmonster1 New commenter

    I agree with that and am fully aware that my daughter’s behaviour isn’t always the best and she has consequences. She is made to apologise to everybody, and always has, she has to say what she did wrong, how she thinks it made them feel and what she can do next time, and have strategies put in place for her. At the end of the day if the amazing HT had gone down that route my child would have rarely been in school, but also wouldn’t have started to understand the effect of her behaviour, how and why it’s wrong or learned self regulation. There are lots of strategies that can keep staff and students safe. Sometimes it was simple things as her TA might wear something with buttons. She has an extreme phobia of them but when she was younger and couldn’t tell us she would try to rip the buttons of the item. She has sensory overload so perfumes or aftershaves would illicit a violent outburst because she felt extreme pain in her ‘brain’ from the smell, loud noises made her ears feel like they would explode and to touch her she would be like a wild animal because it felt like her skin was in a fire. All these things caused extreme reactions due to lack of language. We tracked all outbursts to find the cause. There is nearly always a simple reason. They aren’t wilfully trying to hurt people but many can’t fully explain. So to exclude and punish her because she lashed out at somebody she felt was burning her or hurting her seems wrong.
    Have you identified what could be her triggers in school? Once we did the violence became managed and she could be moved to a seperate area until she could self regulate.
    ClearAutism and Rott Weiler like this.
  7. biscuitmonster1

    biscuitmonster1 New commenter

    I also teach in an enhanced dsp unit half my teaching timetable, the rest in mainstream section of our school with other ASD students. So I understand the duty of care to others. I find talking to the ones I teach that they struggle of rules set by teachers are not followed and aren’t exactly the same for every student and can become argumentative. That tone of voice or how things are worded can be confusing. A simple thing most kids would follow but last week my tutee could not understand why he was in detention because he thought he had a choice. The teacher had said ‘can you take your coat of please?’ As we all do. Most students would understand the teacher wanted the coat removed. He thought he had a choice by starting with can you... and please. It led to him been isolated for three days because he couldn’t understand what he had done wrong.
    He was right to be isolated as he was rude but for that time to spent ensuring he understand the language used. Then he would be more compliant the next time. I do not believe that ASD students shouldn’t have consequences for there behaviour but to exclude them for not been able to read a situation or respond as we would seems harsh.
    ClearAutism and Rott Weiler like this.
  8. abacus1982

    abacus1982 Established commenter

    I hope the original poster can learn from this that it is not cut and dry. For the person saying you were too soft, there is the person saying exclusion would have been too harsh. Ultimately you did what you thought was right with the information you had at the time, try to remember that.
  9. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    I've not been a HT though I have been very close to some exclusion decisions. They are always a nightmare: you are trying to balance so many things including the welfare of the rest of the class and the staff as well as the welfare of the child who's in trouble. You have to balance the message the exclusion gives out to others against the message it gives the child and their parents or carers. You have to make predictions of the consequences of exclusion and not excluding. You have to weigh up what has been done already to try to resolve the problem and whether the school has the ability to do more.
    And having made your decision you have to justify it to several different groups of people who have differing needs, viewpoints and access to information. And then you have to worry about whether you got it right.
    It's tough and you have my sympathy (along with many other posters on this thread)
  10. circuskevin

    circuskevin Established commenter

    Hi @biscuitmonster1 ,

    I shall give a couple of tales about 13 year old autistic kids sometime.

    In the meantime what are her physical capabilities?

    I think you said in one post she was VI?

    Other than that is she pretty average?

  11. biscuitmonster1

    biscuitmonster1 New commenter

    Can you PM as I don’t want to post too much on here and take away from OP thread?

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