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I really did laugh out loud

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by moscowbore, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. moscowbore

    moscowbore Lead commenter


    How is Scotland going to be at the forefront of any tech-based industry when there was a 20% drop of students doing higher computing? Most schools only pay token attention to teaching computing then put s4,s5 and higher in the same class at the same time.

    A joke? Total delusion? Maybe the government mean Scotland could host a tech industry with overseas graduates. Ah, that must be it.
    Alice K and AyeRight like this.
  2. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    Yup, it is a disgrace, isn't it?

    Maybe we really do need more home economics, drama, dance and PE teachers to populate those high-paying jobs in the tourism industry.

    I remember from a few years ago that India is churning out more Maths graduates than the UK is graduates. At some point in the future India will reap the rewards of that (and India is about to overtake Germany as the world's fourth largest economy I hear).
    sicilypat likes this.
  3. grayst

    grayst New commenter

    Ah, but Mr Swinney and Ms Sturgeon point out that there are more kids sitting Highers than ever before.

    And they're correct.

    But the big increases have been in English and, er, PE. Was that what they intended?
  4. moscowbore

    moscowbore Lead commenter

    This is exactly my point. No students doing computing will eventually leave Scotland at a massive disadvantage on the world stage.
    Hire more teachers and pay them properly and ban teaching more than one qualification in a class.
    bonxie and sicilypat like this.
  5. AyeRight

    AyeRight Occasional commenter

    We dont need computing and maths when we have Google!
  6. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

  7. bonxie

    bonxie Senior commenter

    To encourage more people to join the teaching profession, the pay needs to be increased to a rate in line with other professions. A new computer science graduate can earn far more in their first job in industry than they can in teaching. The low pay, lack of respect and heavy workload that teachers have to put up with are not going to entice many computer science graduates into teaching. Our local secondary had real trouble trying to find a computing teacher when the last one left.
  8. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    However,this argument might not hold for all subjects. Therefore,are you suggesting that teachers should not be all paid the same?
  9. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I once sat in on a Home Ec lesson which was all about the importance of browser security, specifically http versus https. Interesting lesson, which can't be easy to do considering the subject matter.

    Meantime, here's me (1) struggling trying to understand the Standard Model of Particle Physics and (2) struggling trying to figure out how to teach it.

    Not sure if teachers should all be paid the same or not, I can't decide after all these years.
  10. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I know this is beside the point but I would love to hear the wider context of the Home Ec lesson. How does that fit into the subject?
  11. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I think it was part of a course. I can't remember the year group but the topic was internet safety. I'm not a HE expert!
  12. MilkyBar Kid

    MilkyBar Kid Occasional commenter

    There is already an unwritten pecking order in schools amongst depts with some poor souls sitting just above the janny and cleaners. Once you consider adding different salaries into the mix then you only make it worse. If you think another subject is easier than yours then get yourself an ATQ in that subject and go and teach it yourself. We've got enough problems fighting SMT without squabbling amongst ourselves.
  13. teachaaaaaa

    teachaaaaaa New commenter

    I think it’s time for ‘shortage subject’ payments. Base salary the same but pay some teachers a bonus. It’s just a fact of the market economy. I have always felt that bluntly, some subjects are more valuable than others. You have to remember that we are preparing our economy to have the skills and workers it needs for the future. Some are more attuned to that than others.
  14. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    The old chesnut of "Preparing pupils for jobs that don't yet exist".

    Funny how people my generation(mid 50s or older) who where brought up and educated when computers and associated technologies were a thing of science fiction films,managed to teach themselves how to use computers/technology at home and as a teaching tool from the earlier days of one computer suite in a school to the days of everything at school being dependent on technology. Is it because we were all whiz kids or is it because we could think rationally,analyse the situation and quickly figure out what to do when coming back after a holiday,the computer network had yet again been updated and nothing looked the same?
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  15. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    1) It's not clear what schools are for any more, certainly not state ones.

    2) There are too many pretendy teacher jobs, eg the PEF-funded PT of Something Useful.

    3) I'm sure we all agree that English and Maths are school subjects, but, eg Dance? Why not snooker and darts then?

    Sorry, beginning to rant.
    Effinbankers and sicilypat like this.
  16. moscowbore

    moscowbore Lead commenter

    English schools offer recruitment incentives to teachers of certain subjects. Competition is high for certain teachers and it is a way of attracting those scarce teachers.
    Scotland could do the same. Problem is that Education Scotland is so poor, we put N5 and Higher students in the same room and expect teachers to teach both at the same time and expect decent results. If there is not sufficient money to give each class a teacher then we get what we pay for.
    sicilypat and bigjimmy2 like this.
  17. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I think presenting pupils for qualifications they have little or no hope of attaining is a bigger problem than mixed classes.

    This is a big disincentive for me. Teaching pupils throughout the year, giving them feedback, giving them homework you know they won't do ("I don't know how to do it") - just generally trying your best to help them is a real downer for me, and, I suspect, a lot of other teachers.
    GuessWho likes this.
  18. GuessWho

    GuessWho Occasional commenter

    I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

    In my case we get kids through Nat 4 course by hook or by crook.
    We then say to pupils and guidies that they should not choose Nat 5 because they couldn't really pass Nat 4.
    In August we end up with hordes of such kids in Nat 5 sections with no chance of passing the Units (which we still do) let alone an external exam.

    Fast forward to first tracking report - predicted grade 9 - working grade 9 - target 8 (and that's being generous)
    Informed that target can't be 8....if they're in a Nat 5 class then they should have a target of at least 6
    Fast forward to prelim with single figure percentages - questioned why such a poor performance and what can I do to improve the situation.
    Marisha, sicilypat and bigjimmy2 like this.
  19. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    And I wholeheartedly agree with this reply!

    We cheat to get pupils through N4. When pupils fail N4 tests our FHs tell us to "make sure" they pass the resit. Another variation is to do the test questions one by one with the class (it doesn't surprise me when they still get it wrong). God forbid a child fails a N4 end-of-unit test! I mean, you get grief from your FH, who in turn would get it from their "link" DHT (invariably a PE or Dance teacher btw, but, I digress!), and ultimately, from the HT.

    Tracking reports? What a lie, we need to put false information into them as well. A target grade 6?! Are you flucking joking? This nutter of a pupil whose attendance is about 50%, is always asking to go to the toilet (small capacity, maybe?), never brings a pencil, doesn't occur to him to bring a jotter, not a single homework completed in 6 months and you want a target set?

    And they "progress" on to N5 in S5! I has a pupil dumped on me last year who, according to Pastoral Incompetent, had "settled in" to my subject a few weeks after joining mid-term (he had no pals in the subject he transferred from). I made sure in his written report that "never settled in" was mentioned at least three times and I often wonder if Pastoral Don'tCare ever got the dig at them.
    Marisha, sicilypat and GuessWho like this.
  20. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Spot on! Who do these people think they are continuing to deliver that tired old line as if it's going to inspire us? I can't remember where but I saw a list of jobs that exist now that didn't years ago. One of them was 'Uber Driver'. Now, to me an Uber driver is a taxi driver who works for a specific company - Uber - who happen to use up to date technology to make booking and paying of fares easier. There is very little I could do to prepare a kid to be an Uber driver that I wouldn't already be doing to prepare them to be a taxi driver. There were other nonsensical things on the list which I think just proved the point that this particular cliche has had its day!
    Marisha, bigjimmy2 and catmother like this.

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