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I need your advice...

Discussion in 'Primary' started by sarah_kh9, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. sarah_kh9

    sarah_kh9 New commenter

    Hello there.
    I am a student who refuses to study through the university route as I am unwilling to put myself in any form of debt.
    The above is non-negotiable so please bear with me.
    I have 9 GCSEs grades A*-Bs.
    I have four A levels, 2 grade As and 2Bs. I am also a qualified early years level 3 practitioner.
    I have been told to study level 5 education and training with mathematics included and then get a QTLS afterwards. I am told this will enable me to teach in primary schools (as that is what I want to do).

    Is what I am told true? Can I teach primary mathematics with level 5 , QTLS and without attending Uni?

    I know my chances are slimmer than graduates in finding a job but the diploma route is much cheaper.

    Thank you
    Sara x
  2. celago22

    celago22 Occasional commenter

    Qtls would enable you to teach post 16.
    You need QTS (qualified teacher status).
    They are not the same and you need QTS to be able to teach in a school. Qtls is more of a professional status "look at me, I completed a few months teaching") whereas QTS is the actual teaching qualification.
    If you want to teach in primary you will need QTS.
    Just do it properly, get the qualification and work in the age range that you would like to work in.
    starlightexpress likes this.
  3. sarah_kh9

    sarah_kh9 New commenter

    But I’ve researched for days and constantly told QTS is the equivalent to a QTLS...

    Attached Files:

  4. sarah_kh9

    sarah_kh9 New commenter

    And then there is this...

    Attached Files:

  5. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    Would you consider university without the debt?
    One option might be to do your degree part-time, working part-time alongside to raise the funds to pay as you go. Obviously how feasible that is depends on your other outgoings, but some young students still living at home are able to do this. Open University modules work out at £3000 for 60 credits - an honours degree needs 360 credits.
  6. sarah_kh9

    sarah_kh9 New commenter

    It will take me six years part-time to study and cost me £18000 in total. Only after the six years would I have a degree and then will need further training for QTS.
    I have children and a low paying job. Just do not have the extra funds to pay modules for next six years. I’m really stuck in a rut here.

    I have come across some text at that provide hope but I’m trying to be cautious as I have little knowledge about the process.

    Attached Files:

  7. celago22

    celago22 Occasional commenter

    This is a good idea but it would take longer!
  8. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    What about teaching overseas and doing a iPGCE? Have you thought about this option?
  9. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Occasional commenter

    L5 Diploma in Education and Training (DET) programmes are the recognised teaching qualification for the post-16 sector." From UCAS (https://www.ucas.com/teaching-option/level-5-diploma-education-and-training)

    One of your own links does refer to it as an FE course.

    I'm sorry - I don't want to be negative, and I don't have any especial expertise - but I think you would really struggle to get a primary teaching job without a degree. As far as I can remember, it is always listed as an essential requirement in pretty much every person specification I've seen, do I fear you would get automatically rejected, however good a candidate you might be.

    Sometimes there is an option where you can 'top up' a diploma/foundation degree to a full one - is that a possibility with the course you are considering?

    I did know somebody who was teaching with QTLS but it was a secondary school and she had a degree and PGCE (and even then she had hassles over pay at first) - I think the rule about being equivalent and being able to teach in school was more aimed at those subjects that might be taught in an FE setting or in a school...
    Juliet6079 likes this.
  10. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Occasional commenter

    P.S. Does the Registered Teachers Programme still run? It was a bit like the GTP but you could start it without having a complete degree - you'd train and finish your degree at the same time. I'm not sure what the funding situation is like but might be worth exploring to see whether an option (e.g. if you did some OU study first or a foundation degree at an FE college)
  11. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    You aren't likely to get a job teaching primary mathematics at all.
    Generally speaking primary teachers teach all subjects.

    You will need a degree in order to become a teacher. It is a degree level profession.
    Juliet6079, snowyhead and Jesmond12 like this.
  12. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    In theory, QLTS seems to be equivalent to QTS. In practice however, with it you would come well down the pecking order when being considered for a primary post-even below ex-secondary teachers:p
  13. brighton56

    brighton56 Occasional commenter

    Teaching is a graduate profession so you need a degree in most cases. If you want to be a teacher that badly then go down the route of student loans. Once you have a degree, there are plenty of options to get QTS and some offer bursaries or salaries if you do something like school direct.

    I appreciate your circumstances about having children etc. but everyone is in the same boat nowadays. Further education is expensive but you need it if you want a graduate job.
  14. RGJM2012

    RGJM2012 New commenter

    If you are a parent in a low paying job you may receive financial help if you study through the open university.

    That’s what I did. Two young kids and a 16 hour a week job.
    Open university - 4 years, degree in English literature (helped with funding)
    GTP Primary - salaried full time training.

    This is my tenth year of teaching and what little student loan I had I have now paid off, unnoticed, through my salary. It was hard, I couldn’t attend any lectures and the jump straight into on the job training and working full time impacted all of us but it was more than worth it.

    ‘If you want something bad enough’ and all that.
    DexterDexter likes this.
  15. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Ok, I appreciate your point. You need to apply a financial consultant's mind here.

    Over a ten or twenty year period, you will receive X amount of net income.
    Should someone say to you - here is a model where you still receive X amount of net income but you end up with a degree and QTS then you say: ok, I’m interested.

    So, the degree is funded by a graduate tax which you pay for 25 years. This tax is 9% of salary over a set cap. Currently in the low twenties.

    There are other funds you access such as funding for having children whilst studying for QTS.

    The resulting degree and QTS accelerate your employability and pay rate far beyond the pay rate for someone without a degree and QTLS.

    Over a ten year period you will break even. Over a twenty year period you will earn tens of thousands more.

    If you’ve been unable to work up good enough financial modelling for the first few years then you need to consult a good financial adviser who can help you achieve this.

    Possibly not what you want to hear, but that is the best option.
  16. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I realise that you've said that avoiding loans is non-negotiable, but having come across people who have misconceptions about the student loan system, it's worth just checking you understand it.

    The student loan is different to most loans. The rate of paying off is salary dependent, so you only pay it off if you're earning well, above a certain threshold (currently £364 a week, I think). Even then, it's not 9% of your whole salary, but 9% of the part of your salary above that threshold. It's also written off after a certain length of time. So it's not like a normal debt that you might never be rid of, and that will be sucking money from you that you can't afford. If you're not earning enough to afford the repayments, you don't pay them. Although the interest might then mount up, it will all be cancelled in due course, so you don't have to keep working until it's all paid off. Thinking of it as a graduate tax might be rather more helpful. In fact, in this country, we are all effectively loaned resources (healthcare, schooling, child benefit) which we pay for later through our taxes.

    If you're just scared of debt (and I think that's very healthy), have another think. If you're part of a religious denomination that does not permit debt, check with leaders whether they consider student loans differently. If they don't, maybe they have advice as to how others have managed to get graduate qualifications.

    This country no longer provides free university-level education, which means you have to pay for it somehow, by saving up first, paying in instalments as you go, or taking the student loan (or you could call that "signing up for the graduate tax" if that's easier to contemplate).

    I've just spotted that you might be able to "top up" your early years qualification, which would reduce the time and cost to get a degree:
  17. abacus1982

    abacus1982 Established commenter

    Have a look at job adverts in your local area - our Local Authority has a website with all listed. You could also check TES website and the government one which was introduced last year. Check out the person specifications and see if most say that QTS essential. If that is the case then you know that you need to have that in order to even be shortlisted.

    Just keep in your mind that if there are applications then there needs to be something which will help with shortlisting. It may be that not having a degree or QTS will be the thing that will stop you getting shortlisted a lot of the time.

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