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i) Is anti-semitic a synonym for anti-zionist in contemporary Britain?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by BigFrankEM, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    I don't know as I'm not interested in being lectured by you thanks. If it makes it easier for you to opperate in the world thinking that racism is a black and white matter then I'm happy for you. It's not, by the way.

    I'm none the wiser from your post as to whether you think anti-semetism is a problem in the Labour party and I don't understand why if it is you think it's okay to excuse Corbyn based on his soundbites.
  2. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    Sorry but I find your attitude objectionable. You ignore posts you can't answer then expect others to reply?
    What I wrote was.

    When Andrew Neil asked Corbyn if the statement ‘Rothschild’s Zionists run Israel and world government’ was anti-Semitic. Corbyn replied:​

    “I made that very clear in the Chakrabarti Report, which we did very early on… during my leadership.”

    The Chakrabarti Report into antisemitism was described by the board of deputies as “beyond disappointing” with the chair calling it “a whitewash”.

    Corbyn then went on to give Chakrabarti a peerage the same year. So honest.​

    Why didn't he answer that question? A simple "yes it is." would have sufficied. You don't need two A'Level grade E's to answer.
  3. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    The end always justifies the means. It's moral superiority that allows socialists to persecute people.
    artboyusa and needabreak like this.
  4. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    Values to women, jews, westeners, homosexuals are axomiatic to Islam, so it is reasonable to assume that they are held by Muslims, even if they may not be by that individual.
  5. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    I reckon you are right on that one. Keep the Tory ship steady, avoid the rocks, no need for unneccessary risks to steer towards a healthy majority....

  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    So you're arguing it's OK to be Islamophobic?
  7. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    ISIS have been defeated... they only exist as a fever dream for Islamists and West-detractors now.
  8. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Established commenter

    How is this anti-semitic? i.e exemplifies a hatred of Jews.​
  9. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    So it seems, what a sad state of affairs.
    artboyusa and alex_teccy like this.
  10. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    The same way this is:

    Part of the “cabal of Jews run the world on the backs of the poor” trope.
    It’s as old as the hills, the “Protocols if the elders of Zion” is an example.
    One of the reasons given for the persecution of Jews down the ages, including the Nazis.
    burajda likes this.
  11. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Established commenter

    How do you know this picture depicts Jews? One of them looks like Mahatma Ghandhi.

    Sorry, just because you say it is doesn't make it so. Can't see any hatred of Jewish people here. Just a painting of old men (probably rich) sat around a table held up by dark skinned people.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    monicabilongame likes this.
  12. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    I beseech you to read the following post.

    It's not because I say so, but because they are depicted in as Jewish bankers in a literal, racial, historical, cultural way.

    You may think that they look like Gandhi, but the intended audience will understand exactly the message they want to convey, which is that of a Jewish conspiracy ruling over down trodden workers.
    You also have the eye-of-provenance, a symbol included here to imply total supervision and control.

    If you’re left in any doubt, just read the words of Mear One, the street artist who painted the mural: “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are,”

    This for me is the smoking gun of Corbyns anti-semitism. Why didn't he answer the question? Was his dim brain making a calculation about losing the approval of some of his supporters and followers who agree with this anti semetic post? I don't think so. It's because his values are still the same. This is why @MAGAorMIGA he can be an anti-racist and truthfully say that he has lived a life fighting racist whilst simultaneously being anti semitic. I think this is where the understanding of the matter is on this thread. Racism isn't about cracking jokes about race, or even the discourse one espouses it's about values.
    That's why he didn't bat an eyelid over that mural, and why he couldn't give a clear answer to Andrew Neil. He's held this perception and seemingly he's let it go unchallenged for decades.
    Corbyn comes from a generation and the one before, where holding values as the ones I am discussing was totally axiomatic. They were the rule, not the exception. It's taken us a world war to unpick values of racial hierachy. There still there, perhaps in greater prevelance throught the rest of world.

    It's what the great historian AJP Taylor meant when he said
    “the gift of translating commonplace thoughts into action. He took seriously what was to others mere talk. The driving force in him was a terrifying literalism. Writers had been running down democracy for half a century. It took Hitler to create a totalitarian dictatorship… Again, there was nothing new in anti-Semitism… Everything which Hitler did against the Jews followed logically from the racial doctrines in which most Germans vaguely believed. It was the same with foreign policy... Hitler took [the Germans] at their word. He made the Germans live up to their professions, or down to them – much to their regret.”
    I'm not for one moment comparing Corbyn to Hitler, just saying that what we often when we see racism in action it is a manifestation of values. The same reason recent Islamist attacks have been against activites that the majority of muslims would agree were "unislamic". A concert. A gay disco. People in a pub. Churches on Easter Sunday (Hilary Clinton go **** yourself for calling the victims 'easter worshipers')

    The left may never be free of anti-semitism, there's simply too-much overlap between the values of the two.
    I mentioned in my last post
    @Spoofer4114 a text called "the Protocols of the Elders of Zion". It did not invent antisemitism, but distilled centuries of af antisemitic thought. It was popular amongst the Nazis, goingthrough several publications during that era. It was popular in the west too.

    Here are the Protocols, summary from Wikipedia:

    Correlating themes with the left:
    A cable of wealthy holding power and pulling strings, creating war and unrest deliberately to create profit, seize power.
    False-consciouness (mind control through media), a trope relentless and wearingly trotted out on this forum.
    Fixation with banking, usury etc.
    Antipathy to landowners.
    Political conspiracies to control the majority.
    Hoarding of wealth.
    The power of education to indoctrinate.
    Brunel and George_Randle like this.
  13. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    The Protocols, like Mein Kampf, is still is very popular in muslim countries particularly with Islamo-fascist organisations like Hezbollah and Hamas. Parts of the disgraceful Protocols were copied and pasted into the founding Hamas Charter. The Tsarist antisemitic lies became constitutionalised by the Palestinian organisation. Although recently the Charter has been rewritten.
  14. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    Governments or political leaders in most parts of the world have not referred to the Protocolssince World War II. The exception to this is the Middle East, where a large number of Arab and Muslim regimes and leaders have endorsed them as authentic, including endorsements from Presidents Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat of Egypt, the elder President Arif of Iraq,[91] King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, and Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya.[70][92]

    The 1988 charter of Hamas, a Palestinian Islamist group, states that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion embodies the plan of the Zionists.[93] Recent endorsements in the 21st century have been made by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, the education ministry of Saudi Arabia,[92] member of the Greek Parliament, Ilias Kasidiaris,[94] and Young Earth creationist, Kent Hovind.[95]

  15. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Established commenter

    If the portrait is anti-semitic then why is it just the "older white Jewish folk" who would have an issue. Surely he would feel all Jewish folk would have an issue with his 'anti-semitism'. Probably because, as he claims, he is not anti-semitic at all. He just dislikes bankers (Jewish or otherwise) as do many people. You are stretching, as most smear merchants do ,if you think this is proof positive of the artist's hatred of all Jewish people.


    In this article he claims that the group is Jewish and white anglos and denies being anti-semitic. People read into the picture what they want to and it suits you to believe it to be anti-semitic for whatever reason. What you feel it to be however does not make it so. It is possible to hate Jewish bankers without hating the entire Jewish race just as it is possible to hate American/Russian politicians without hating all American/Russian people. It is possible to hate certain muslims (ISIS) without hating all muslims. As soon as you say you hate particular Jews however you are automatically labelled anti-semitic. That is just nonsense.

    As for Corbyn being anti-semitic ,that of course is BS. John Bercow who worked closely with him for years has not detected a whiff of anti-semitism about Corbyn yet you who have never met him says that he is an anti-semite because he liked a painting that you have decided is anti -semitic.

    Now whom should I believe. Bercow or Teccy? Tough one (not really) but I think I am going with Bercow.
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    You might want to consider the voices of others who worked with him for years within his party and not just the ones who agree with your views, but I understand if you and JC don't value their opinions because that just confirms their view of him and those blindly following and supporting their leader.
  17. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Established commenter

    What voices are you talking about and what do they say?
  18. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Those forced to leave because their voiced were not listened when they voiced concern over anti semitism there were a few have you forgotten already?
  19. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Were they the ones paid £1 million by the Israeli Embassy to undermine Corbyn at every opportunity?
    monicabilongame likes this.
  20. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    On thin ice there.
    artboyusa likes this.

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