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i) Is anti-semitic a synonym for anti-zionist in contemporary Britain?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by BigFrankEM, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    I think Jeremy Corbyn got a really bad deal in the Neil interview. He was treated terribly.

    I believe I fully understand where Mr Corbyn is coming from and I also believe I fully understand the kind of world he would like to see become a reality. It's the kind of world myself and my friends hoped for in the seventies, but I have to remember two things: kindness is often taken as weakness and approaching people with an open hand can result in a kick in the teeth.

    In the late eighties, I think I came to a realisation that the world was a difficult and dangerous place and a totally socialist approach would fail because greed is a primary trait in the species.

    It's no good trying to explain a revolutionised world to people stuck in this one. It takes really intelligent focus and traction to get away from where we are now and where, sadly I think we are bound evermore.

    I don't know how he's held on so long and kept going. Maybe he's surrounded himself in a bubble of like-minded people and the evening talks and encouragement salve the daily struggle.

    We didn't have that environment so we just got kicked in the teeth repeatedly and had to change tack.

    So, I'm sorry Jeremy, you might die a very sad and unfulfilled man hoping for what might have been. Maybe with a different species.

    The other side of the coin is getting people to understand how we might fare post- Brexit. It's not like Dunkirk. Dunkirk was a disaster. It's no good thinking of Churchill. Churchill was a buffoon.

    There needs to be a clearer recognition of the intensity to come. What can happen can be like nothing known before. There will always be leaders and followers. There will always be those who are cautious and those who see the need to act and then actually act.

    Comparisons are futile offerings for what can be our future. Sometime you just have to take the bit between your teeth and go for it. Somebody has to do this. Somebody has to have the courage to move forward. We should leave the EU as was decided. Not because it might be the best thing to do -though I think it is, but because we have to have some standards in life and one such standard is fidelity.

    If you can't accept the outcome of the 2016 referendum please don't go out and vote on the 12th December. You obviously don't value the voting system we have and therefore you don't respect it. It would be a lie for you to vote after not accepting the result of a previous vote. Get your head sorted out about what you believe about the voting system and then either stay at home and never vote again or recognise that with all its campaigning faults there was still a vote and people went out in faith and put their x in the box of their choice. Don't deny other people their choice. They're just like you trying to find the best way through life. Don't devalue people in such a way. You only devalue yourself by doing so.
    burajda likes this.
  2. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    More than half of Jewish Israelis are of Arab origin. From places like Damascus, Baghdad, Alexandria. They are native to the region and have lived there continuously since the time of Jesus. Those Arab Jews didnt invade, they came as refugees to Israel when the Arabs states oppressed them, stole their property or kicked them out.

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Yet the Israelis are allowed to claim, from zero evidence, that the Philistines who lived in Judaea and Samaria at the same time as the Jews are now "extinct", a claim utterly at variance with common sense. When the Diaspora expelled most of the Jews, who were left behind? The ancestors of the Palestinians. That's who.
    lapinrose and vannie like this.
  4. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    The ancestors of Palestinians also came from diverse places, there was a great deal of movement of people in late Ottoman period and the Mandate as the economy of the area picked up. From modern Syria, Egypt, the Balkans and the Caucuses. Prior to that apart from the coastal strip, most were nomadic Bedouins.
  5. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    So let me see if I have understood the mix:

    After the Holocaust (quite the worst example of ethnic cleansing in human history; principally but not exclusively aimed at the Jews, whether identified by race, by religion or both) the leaders of the Jews conducted a terrorist campaign to force an ever so willing Britain to vacate the Palestinian mandate territory and allow them to set up their own state there, in the process expelling getting on for 1 million non-Jewish Palestinians.

    And now anyone at all who dares to question the legitimacy of any of the post war part of the above is, a priori, a Jew-hater ?
    Oldfashioned likes this.
  6. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    But new identities arise. So the Phililistines are culturally and socially extinct just like the Bell Beaker Folk, the Brigantes and the Picts are in the UK. The modern Palestinian identity was really forged by its struggle since 1947.
  7. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    There was ethnic cleansing by Jewish militias in the civil war and Jewish terrorists attacked the British for a variety of reasons, one being its attempts to stop desperate European Jews from seeking refuge in Palestine. Of those Arabs who became refugees, most fled, they were not all expelled but some certainly were. Why many are still in refugee camps in their own immediate region is another political game. I wouldnt call anyone who takes a genuine interest in the history of the region a jew hater.
  8. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Not necessarily, but someone who doesn't swiftly and effectively deal with anti semitic comments, posts and tweets from members of their party might be accused of being one.

    Edit - it would appear that the bureaucratic nature of the Labour Party might have meant timewasting in dealing with the issue but I'm not sure, no reason was forthcoming in tonight's interview but to say an ongoing investigation was talking place... It was clear this was taking an inordinate amount of time and that in another case a written warning was issued but nothing more. Nevertheless the issue has isolated many supporters from the Jewish community, that much is clear and no apology was forthcoming and it isn't doing the party any favours.
  9. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Well it looks like Jeremy Corbyn isn't going to be the prime minister and fakelabour will have little success in the forthcoming general election -but for the wrong reason.

    Mr Corbyn's enemies will bring him down and send him into exile. fakelabour could have been discredited and beaten in the general election for its crazy stance on the 2016 referendum result but it seems this won't have to be the tactic used.

    And I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite. I don't think he's a racist at all. His 'crime' is associating with freedom fighters who are seen as peddling terrorism. His problem is an inability to explain in clear and concise terms what he is about and why he does what he does and holds the values he holds.

    I suppose it's too heavy for some people to comprehend. Soundbite politics and social media frenzy have caused his downfall.

    What a futile and stupid way for his career in politics to end.
    Oldfashioned likes this.
  10. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    It's a dog eat dog world out there.

    I'd say he came quite unstuck in the interview regarding UK security issues, some won't mind but others will, such is the nature of our democracy.
  11. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Now we've got Swinson on the horizon!

    No, no, no!

    And using those court damages from the SNP.
  12. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Yet still not addressing the anti semitism their leader admitted was present within the party during his interview last night.
  13. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    monicabilongame likes this.
  14. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    The Jews were not the original inhabitants. According to the (Jewish) Tanakh those were the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites, all of whom became the targets of genocide during Israel's invasion of the ‘Land flowing with milk and honey’. No doubt many of their descendants remain in both modern Israel and Palestine. The Passover Psalm 136 celebrates the fate of those who got in the way::

    He slew mighty Kings: Sehon King of the Amorites and Og the King of Bashan.
    For his mercy endureth forever.

    Love the irony!
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  15. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    No, it was an agreement reached between Congress and The Muslim League.
  16. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    I thought that was the only area of the interview where Corbyn's evasive answers were justified. I don't know when, or why the ability to order the assassination of suspects in a foreign sovereign country became a mark of ability for a potential British Prime Minister. I thought Andrew Neill out of order on that, and Corbyn should have called him out, but of course he didn't He does come across as weak.
    anotherauntsally likes this.
  17. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    There is anti-semitism within every political party. I have yet to see the other leaders address it either.
    Oldfashioned likes this.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Two people in the Tory Party... 800 cases in the Labour Party.

    Stop trying to pretend there is an equivalency. It's whatabouttery plain and simple.
  19. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Amid the claim that one is too many it appears to be a decisive shot in the foot not to take action to expell them. Then to launch a race and faith manifesto with a former anti semite (by her own admission on TV yesterday) at the helm is surely political suicide.
  20. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    He was referring to terrorists who threaten our country wearing suicide vests not suspects.

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