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How is your setting introducing 15 hour free nursery entitlement for nursery children?

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by FoundationStage!, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. Hi All,

    Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere already. As you probably know, the government is changing the hours for 3 and 4 yr olds from 12.5 hr week/5 x 2.5 hr days to 15 hr week/5 x 3 hr days. In my LEA the lead person said this would not effect primary schools but we have just found out this is not the case - every setting with nursery-aged children in the UK will have to provide these extended hours from Sept 2010.

    What changes will your setting/school be making to accommodate these statutory changes? How will it effect your staff and the children? We are unsure how to make these changes - the LEA has provided no support except for giving £400 per child for the first year. This is to cover staffing - but how will it be funded in the second year? All staff's contracts will need amending according to pay and hours of service.

    This seems like another hasty decision made by GB and his cronies which has not been thought through. It is almost enough to push me out of teaching. Don't they think we work hard enough? Don't know where we'll find time for displays, meetings etc. when the school day is extended for an additional hour.

    FS!
     
  2. Hi All,

    Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere already. As you probably know, the government is changing the hours for 3 and 4 yr olds from 12.5 hr week/5 x 2.5 hr days to 15 hr week/5 x 3 hr days. In my LEA the lead person said this would not effect primary schools but we have just found out this is not the case - every setting with nursery-aged children in the UK will have to provide these extended hours from Sept 2010.

    What changes will your setting/school be making to accommodate these statutory changes? How will it effect your staff and the children? We are unsure how to make these changes - the LEA has provided no support except for giving £400 per child for the first year. This is to cover staffing - but how will it be funded in the second year? All staff's contracts will need amending according to pay and hours of service.

    This seems like another hasty decision made by GB and his cronies which has not been thought through. It is almost enough to push me out of teaching. Don't they think we work hard enough? Don't know where we'll find time for displays, meetings etc. when the school day is extended for an additional hour.

    FS!
     
  3. cinderella1

    cinderella1 New commenter

    I have been mentioning this for ages within our school, only to be told by our head the other week that we do not have to offer it as long as it is available somewhere in the local area. I disagree with this but need to find the paperwork to show this is not the case. Anyone got any links?
     
  4. cinderella1

    cinderella1 New commenter

    I wonder if we will get any extra money for the extra time once we go over our hours as already we cover the hours paid for including those extra hours that I cannot remember the name of.
    I do know of cases in the health sector which have been taken to tribunal where they have had to pay up........................... will we all be seeking compensation for hours not paid in a few years hehe
    I think that changing to 3 would not be a problem, we coud do 9-12 and 1-4
    Or if extra staff provided 9-12 and 12-30 till 3-30
    The easist option for us would be to change to an all day nursery instead of two sep sessions, this would be beneficial to the parents and the children in our area.
     
  5. Wouldn't it be great to claim overtime?!

    https://czone.eastsussex.gov.uk/county_information/virtual_schoolbag/document.asp?item=1084

    Looks like this has been known for a long time, but we are the last to know as usual. My Head has been told every state setting with 3 and 4 year olds must provide these hours. Full time would be ideal. Consistency would be lovely for everyone! Afternoon nursery tends to drag and they don't get as much out of it as the morning children.
     
  6. Found this online too: 'What is happening to the proposal to extend the under-5s offer from 12.5 to 15 hours from 2007/08?
    The government is committed to increasing the free early education entitlement for 3- and 4-year-olds to 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year by 2010 and enabling parents to use the entitlement more flexibly. Twenty pathfinder LAs are delivering the extended entitlement of 15 hours a week from April 2007. They are testing the demand for different kinds of flexibility and ways of working that will ensure such demand can be met by a diverse childcare market. Emerging learning from the pathfinder LAs can be found on the Every Child Matters website.'
     
  7. We have just started the 3 hour system and have decided to keep 2 sessions- am and pm, all day was too much for our school to manage at this stage and there isn't any need for it in my area. We were opening 8.45- 11.15 and 12.30-3.00, now we are running 8.30-11.30 and 12.15-3.15, this is 15 mins before main school and pm session finishes 15 mins after main school so works well (school site is large and takes time to go from different entrances) The nursery teacher has obviously had to increase her hours which she wasn't happy about initially but to be honest if you want to be a nursery teacher this is what it is going to be like so she decided she wanted to be in nursery and has just got on with it. We are funded enough to pay the NN the 5 extra hours a week. I seem to remember that the way in which schools are funded for their maintained nurseries is going to change in order to tackle the money issues.
     
  8. Charlotte82 - you say that your Nursery teacher has accepted that she has to work the extra hours - does she get paid more? If not, then it is NOT fair.
    Lucy
     
  9. No she doesn't get paid more- but that is like KS2 teachers saying they should get more than KS1 teachers becasue their pupils are meant to have more teaching time than in KS1. Other staff in school including the reception teacher (Me!) all do 2 lunchtime duties and 2 playtime duties a week but don't get more money for this either, I'm not saying its fair but it is the way the system works and if we want to be part of that then we have to accept how it is.
     
  10. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    We are one of the pathfinder LAs so are in our second year of the 15hours both nursery and reception staff have extended days (we are a FSU) children arrive for 8.45 start to 11.45 lunch - 45mins (which parents may pay extra for) afternoon 12.30 - 3.30.
    No we don't get paid more for the extra hours we work compared to the rest of the school.
     
  11. Honey Loop

    Honey Loop New commenter

    We have a FS unit with 18 reception children and 17 nursery children. This is the first year we've offered 15 hours. The nursery children have always been in full time before. We are situated in an area of extreeme deprivation and have applied for funding to pay for full time places for the children. Whether we get it, or not, is a different matter. So, for us, it's weird only having the younger children in such a short period of time.

     
  12. We are a FSU in a primary school. We have full time F1 (reception) children and part time F2 (nursery) children. We have started our 15hr provision this week after finding out (when I went into school in the first week of the holidays - must stop doing that!!) that we couldn't provide 15hrs in conjunction with nearby children's centre as we'd been previously told. Our part time morning children do 8.45 - 11.45 and afetrnoon children do 12.15 - 3.15. Our full time children do 9.00 - 3.15, which includes lunch (in the FSU) from 11.30 - 12.30. We extended the end of the day to 3.15 for all children as it made the whole "going home" process less complicated. The staggered starts to am and pm sessions means that the youngest children can settle into their child initiated learning before the older children arrive. We've had to increase 1 TA's hours to cover the additional time but the 2 nursery nurses are just working 15 minutes longer with the children. As they are paid until 4pm each night it just means they have less time for reflection and preparation. We have funding for this year but I don't know what will happen in subsequent years.
     
  13. cinderella1

    cinderella1 New commenter

    Well said little Lucy
    Charlotte remember that in the nursery teachers do not get a mid morning break at all or playground duty they are forever full on, when outside we are not just observing the children we are extending their learning, leading activities or playing/modelling play with them to extend learning. So we are already teaching the same amount of hours or more than key stage 2 teachers. We also have to do lots of cleaning that is not required in the Key Stage sector.
    So it is not fair, hmm will we have to get on with it, legally we are employed the same as any other teacher for x amount of hours teaching and our other hours, if we then have to teach for extra hours then I do believe their will be a legal scope to claim more money. I am sure the unions will be looking into this, or our contracts will be changed, or we wont be able to attend any of the meetings etc.. due to having already met our hours of obligation. it is not a case of getting on with it, no other job would expect you to suddenly work for extra hours without pay as this is ilegal, just as it will be within the school. Remember this is not hours in our own time that we already put in for free but hours within school time therefore a whole different ball game.

    Anyway back to post, I like the idea of the 8;30 till ll: 30 start and the 12;30 until 3:30.
    funnily I worked in an all day nursery and didnt not find that the whole day was too much for the children, we provided a free flow from 10am, and during the afternoon the adult activities took place outside, whereas in the morning they were inside, it enabled us to provide adult led lit/psrn in the morning and in the afternoon adult led kuw and creative. These were also available in the morning but not as adult led.
     
  14. I work in reception so I do understand that you don't have morning break and have a lot more cleaning etc to do- as do I! I also understand that you are not just observing chn etc as I am in the same boat you are in. But the fact is that in ks 2 there is a requirement that chn have more directed teaching time than in KS1 or EYFS so they are doing more hours, it is just a different type of teaching. I don't understand how people can expect to earn more if their contact time isn;t any different from other staff. As a reception class teacher I don't have a morning break either, have 30 mins lunch if i'm lucky (as with most teachers) so actually have more contact time with my chn than the nursery teacher does working 3 hour sessions- does that mean that I can complain louder than her?
     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I'm not sure how your nursery teacher can have less contact time than you am I missing something?
    I'm a reception teacher I'm working 3hours (no break) in the morning and afternoons as are the nursery staff in the unit 6hours contact time whereas KS1/2 work 3hours in the morning with a 15 min break and 2h.20 mins in the afternoon with a 15 min break making 4h.50 min contact time
     
  16. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter

    Charlotte KS1 and 2 do have different min hours per week but in my school and most schools I work in all that has happened is that KS1 and reception do the KS2 min hours so do the same. With assemblies and breaks taken off, our KS1 and KS2 teaching staff have 4 hour 50 mins a day contact time. That is already 10 mins less than nursery, when 3hrs comes in then we will be doing 1hr and 10 mins more teaching a day.
    As to how they will do it, we were supposed to have an LEA wide meeting in september ready for starting 3 hrs next year. What a surprise sept has come and gone and no meeting. I have heard of some schools that mearly employ extra TA support for the half hour so that the teacher still works 2.5 hrs and other schools where the teacher is paid the extra hour. I would be happy with the latter, but feel that this may eventually price us out especially those on UPS and also the reaction of other staff as Charlottes response has so clearly demonstrated, especially those who think we just play all day.
     
  17. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter

    Forgot to say that my friend in a pvi setting in an LA who started 3hrs this year is having noend of problems. Funding for the extra hour hasnt come through and the LA are already backtraking on paying the full amount for the extra hour. A sign of funding problems to come!
     
  18. Josie Jo

    Josie Jo New commenter

    Sorry, still don't understand your sums. Nursery teachers currently have 5 hours contact time
    (2 x 2.5 hour session), so it is more than KS2. No assembly times, breaks, etc. We will be moving to 6 hour contact time, an extra hour a day, ie 5 hours a week, which equals a whole day a week more than any other teacher.Our planning will increase because at the moment, we tend to repeat in the afternoon what we do in the morning. We will also not get any changeover time at lunch time (we all know that Nursery parents are renowned for not picking up their children on time). We may also have to run lunch clubs if children stay all day.

    We cannot simply change to full time Nursery places, because at the moment we have 2 classes of 30 (AM and PM). We couldn't accommodate 60 children all day with the same staff.

    Also, I know that all the admin involved in sorting out places, parents' choice of half day sessions or full day sessions, will fall to me - with no extra time to sort this out.
     
  19. I also heard that parents could decide from week to week if they wanted full days or mornings to suit what they are doing. How on earth is this manageable? Theres a lot to sort out before next Sept but not heard of any training or advice from my LEA as yet. I suppose it sounded like a great idea for some of those pen pushers in Whitehall!!
     
  20. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    When we introduced it we stated that parents could ask to change each term but that it may not be possible if alternative sessions were unavailable.
     

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