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How far to push my luck...

Discussion in 'Career clinic' started by BTBAM, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. BTBAM

    BTBAM New commenter

    Been teaching primary 12+ years, doing supply for a bit and just CBA with all the nonsense, it's okay as the pressure is minimal but maybe considering getting back into a school for the money over the holidays. if I can feel this laid back but in a permanent school setting again I will be okay.


    - I resent performance management and have no intention of being a part of it as it's unscientific and how it isn't illegal, I do not know.
    - I want the school to know I am not interested in CPD and I certainly don't care what they have to say about observations. I have told my long term supply head teachers this and they don't seem to mind, but I think when a school get the handcuffs on you you become their property and it's hard to manage that.

    If this was a normal job I could easily 'negotiate' my terms and ask for extra PPA, time out of class, not gonna consider doing a club, observations etc.

    I also want to know if the school has EVER put someone on capability - if it has I will get up from the interview and walk away unless I can get in writing that they will not put me on it no matter how expensive I become AND that I will be getting my reference copied in to me before it's sent out anywhere when it comes time to leave.

    I simply don't trust the power one person can have in a school - it's not on that in this job a headteacher can destroy your career. I don't feel that or any of the other things are unreasonable. We have to start somewhere as a profession, to bite back without being fearful of our careers being destroyed.

    Is there any point me being blunt/honest/professional or do I just have to suck it up if I want to do it? I teach like it's still 2008 and always get good/outstanding lesson observations, I'm just done pretending I read stuff and care about it.

    Despite all this, I'm not a trouble maker and get asked to stay on wherever I go. I make it quite clear how I feel about teaching and no one seems to mind, I still love the teaching part and like educating and being there for children and have big successes with that, I just don't want to spend an hour copying and pasting job applications and clicking 'find and replace' only to turn up to an interview to realise NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR IT and I've just wasted time.
  2. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Good luck job hunting ;)
  3. BTBAM

    BTBAM New commenter

    Ha ha thought that'd be where I'm at :p

    Was hoping some brave explorer would say 'yes, actually, my head asked me to not tell people but because they have struggled to recruit they actually did let me drop some of that and it worked out fine, just say [insert how to address this here]'
    agathamorse likes this.
  4. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    I know where you're coming from and feel for you.
    Put yourself in the shoes of a head looking for someone to work with them.
    Your statements sound like "I don't want to reflect on what I'm doing and improve it, I will teach my way no matter what you think, I'm going to go my own way and not work in the direction the school needs (and incidentally get them to fail the next OFSTED for inadequate appraisal), I'm not prepared to do anything to meet professional floor standards and I don't want anything to do with the wider life of the school".
    However, if you're only "finding and replacing" in your single application statement, you're unlikely ever to show that you meet the person requirements for a job, so I wouldn't worry too much about having the conversation we'd all like (at times) to have with heads.

    I spend one day a week on a shortish contract in mainstream and therefore don't get much nonsense. The rest of the time I'm out of the mainstream. My workplace is human centred and I don't have to get grumpy to be treated nicely.
  5. becky70

    becky70 Occasional commenter

    You never know because you only need one person to appoint you and maybe if you get the results they would be OK with it.
    Having said that, performance management is a legal requirement so there's no way of avoiding that if you get a permanent post. CPD often happens at staff meetings and teacher days and you have to attend those. I've seen quite a few teachers who do their own thing over many years of teaching but in recent years they haven't lasted long.
    BTBAM likes this.
  6. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    I’m afraid I think if you said any of those things in an interview I don’t think you would have the remotest chance of getting the job. As @phlogiston says, a Head is looking for someone to join a team, pull their weight and be a part of the school. There are many things currently in teaching which we might consider to be a waste of time or of little value but I don’t think voicing your opinions in the way you suggest is going to help you. Sometimes Heads have to implement things they don’t much like either.
  7. BTBAM

    BTBAM New commenter

    Thanks guys, amazing responses, so considered and helpful. It makes it easier that my initial post was so irrational to begin with lol

    You're so right, all of you, to tell me how a head would feel about those sentiments. I'm still hoping a person will tell me they succeeded to get more of it on their terms but did it in a smart way but I'm not holding out hope so far.

    I gotta either suck it up or do my dissent on the quiet. Thanks again people, you are all so lovely. I wish we all had it better
  8. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Yes they are all correct but this is for a permanent post.

    I have a reasonable amount of the freedoms you insist on but by being long-term supply. I'm currently doing maternity but not on a proper contract but via supply contract, ie. no job security at all.
    I just noticed that you know about long-term supply so it is possible that you could do so well at a school that they offer you a permanent post and you could negotiate some of the terms from that position of strength.

    However the school won't be prepared to rewrite its policies for you so you'll be stuck with PM, CPD and observations. Also as you are not sackable on the spot (like supply) then the school will have to retain the capability stick.

    But if you are in a bottom-end school (I circulate round secondary ones) then the SLT is aware it's you or nobody and so will cut a lot of slack, (if they rate you, and aren't under OFSTED pressure and there's no change of SLT you'll be fine)
  9. BTBAM

    BTBAM New commenter

    Also very considered. Thanks for expressing that all so eloquently. I think you've hit the nail on the head - have to be at a school I like and negotiate from that position of strength. My current head is such a great person I really can't inflict my demands on them as I think they would give in and they love teaching and believe in it so passionately it would break my heart to be in their sincere presence with my thoughts and considerations being what they are. I kinda need the pragmatic SLT you mention - have definitely met them, just not really considered staying in their schools for varying reasons.

    I do like the freedom of supply - but what do you do to make ends meet in the holidays?
  10. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    The simple answer is to earn enough to make it feasible. I've been paid £195 per day* since Easter 2017 at 5 separate schools via 3 different agencies. Easy to say but I get that from offering Maths/Science at bottom-end secondaries in West Yorkshire. I can't get anything like that at 'nice' schools and they can afford to pressure/overwork/sack me anyway as another sucker supply will be along soon.

    *to my shame through Umbrella Companies, so take home about £125.
  11. Grey_Historian

    Grey_Historian New commenter

    I get your cynicism about Performance Management of course. Something I've found useful in the past is asking heads at interview what impresses them most about their most effective staff / what they think makes a great teacher in their personal experience. It reveals a lot about how that person sees teaching and learning and whether their philosophy will fit yours.

    I don't understand how you can be so dismissive of CPD though. Even the most wonderful and experienced teachers can learn new things and personally I would be reluctant to work with someone so dismissive of any chance to develop - so devoid of curiosity.

    If you've had poor experience of CPD in the past, I can assure you that the quality varies hugely in different places.
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  12. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    You have a very negative view of HTs, for sure.

    "Handcuffs on you" - er, no. You can resign and walk away.

    "Ask about capability" - of course. Ask away. Expect to be told it's none of your business.

    "Not interested in CPD" - not all is *****, as others have said.

    If you really don't like the idea of appraisal, which people in normal jobs also have, and one person can also destroy their career, stay on supply. If you want the salary, you might have to accept there are limits. As in any job.
    tjsmith1001 likes this.
  13. Sundaytrekker

    Sundaytrekker Star commenter

    Appraisal is statutory. It is not a choice. The only way to avoid it is on supply.

    I have to say, as a retired head, wouldn’t have been able to agree to any of those demands. If I were in an area where it was getting impossible to recruit? Still only a little flexibility possible.
  14. Summerhols6

    Summerhols6 Occasional commenter

    I get where you're coming from there is a lot of bs in education. So many initiatives not carried through by schools, something doesn't work so they abandon it rather than change it slightly, my god I've seen behaviour policies, rewards, sanctions all arrive and disappear in the blink of a term or two! Marking policies, blue,black, green, purple, red pens, like a Rainbow that hasn't worked! I understand why you're so cynical. Being militant doesn't get you anywhere (I know but don't care as I'm older and don't give a s!!! anymore). However, when I was younger I cowtowed to the bs and because I was younger I could accept it as part of life/the system we live in. As I've got older I realise there is so much nonsense in education, too many SLT b-sh!!ters making big bucks out of bluffing it and making peoples lives a misery in the process.
    You have two choices form where I''m sat, either get temporary work and have less bs around you or suck it up and join the club! Great post and good luck.
    BTBAM and JohnJCazorla like this.

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