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How does the Labour Party move on from its current position?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by red_observer, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    David Milliband being the most recent failed politician on the Right of the Party to throw his packet of """"" into the pack...he was one of the reasons we lost in 2010...a neo liberal agenda that doesn't connect with real people. People are blaming Corbyn but the rot has already set in leading to the disaster in Scotland.
    Corbyn may not be the right man but Labour's path against austerity and cut backs is NOT to be reversed....im not contributing to the thread on who should be the next leader as I think that's not going to sort anything out and I WILL NOT campaign to get rid of COrbyn unlike some of the traitors in the party...but I AM OPEN to suggestions on how to move forwards as I am a Party member and want us to do much better than this.
     
    Laphroig likes this.
  2. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    First Red I agree with you. Second it will now have both of us attacked by the right wing planted trolls on here who hate Labour and Corbyn. You obviously have historical knowledge of the party (as I do). One of the problems is that the labour MPs are more faceless than the Tories, with a much lower profile, and the right wing (dominant) press paid by the capitalist interests continue to misinform, but in slightly more subtle ways than goes on in the USA at the moment. Murdock and his papers, together with his news organisations are very much to blame for this, and have been the mainstay of Tory propaganda since Maggie. Speaking of her, who I remember vividly, I could see through her every move, but the right wing press loved her and persuaded the great unwashed to vote for her over and over, while voting to reduce their living standards, increase taxation (indirect) and shift wealth to the already rich, much of them offshore. Allowing buy-to-let mortgages increased house prices to ridiculous levels and took ownership away from the masses. Not legislating to protect British companies (e.g. Cadbury, British Steel), deregulating pensions and allowing company bosses to do what they want (e.g.Rover) has impoverished us all at the bottom end. Allowing non-domicile rich to buy property and leave it empty as it accrues money is another example. But either nobody (by which I mean the great unwashed types) knows about this or maybe don't care so long as Weatherspoons still gives them pie and a pint for a fiver. I never thought there was anything wrong with the idea of "socialism", but right wing press driven by Tory (if not fascist) dogma have made it a dirty word. We now have a polarised society of the have-nots (who don't vote as they would miss Jeremy Kyle on the telly), have a bits (who probably don't vote either, as they are too busy living hand to mouth), people who voted for Brexit because they were conned by the aforementioned papers, jingoists who truly belive the sort of bull spouted by Farage, dyed in the wool Tories (too stupid to realise how conned they have been), grabbers like the self employed who can fiddle their taxes a bit, and maybe a few Labour activists who fall out amongst themselves. There is nothing wrong with Jeremy Corbyn or his ideals, but getting them across to enough voters to get a Labour party into power seems impossible.
     
    Laphroig and red_observer like this.
  3. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    Love that post Jacob. Everything you say is right and I agree with you. Not a great deal to add except that the DIRECTION the party is going is the right one whoever leads Labour. Of the 150K members, many will have joined because of the Corbyn effect if I can call it that.
    This mornings political programmes will no doubt be filled with Blairites and others ready to attack Corbyn. Why I watch them is baffling to me as I know what **** they are going to peddle...!
     
  4. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Corbyn's policies will help people.

    Milliband's policies will help him and his like-minded MPs get elected but they won't help people. They won't help teachers.

    I prefer to see Corbyn there than some careerist lizard like Milliband, The MPs are all terrfied they'll lose their seats. That's all. People come a long way down th list for most of them.
     
    Laphroig, lexus300 and red_observer like this.
  5. VanEyssen

    VanEyssen Established commenter

    to Conservatives. Their fear is valid.
     
  6. VanEyssen

    VanEyssen Established commenter

    Your contempt for ordinary people is indicative of the problem Labout has
     
    Jesmond12 likes this.
  7. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    Agree with you too Scintillant. PLP full of greasy pole climbers.
     
  8. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Stop calling half of Scots racists and bigots.

    Corbin's policies won't help anyone unless he can get elected. His job is to shift debate on policy to the left. Unfortunately he's shifted debate to himself. He needs to deal with that.
     
  9. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    Corbyn throws away too many opportunities to get his message across. Apparently Tom Watson is worried that the Englisg labour Party will wither like the Scottish party. That doesn't have to happen, there is no attractive alternative unlike in Scotland. But can you imagine Nicola Sturgeon waving away journalists with a breezy "Thank you, thank you!" ( translates to me as "F... off you irritants" and not answering questions - giving the impression he doesn't want to answer them and only wants to talk to followers. The message that comes across is that he loathes the media instead of using them, flawed though it might be, and that he doesn't use them because he doesn't know how to.
    I have no idea of what should happen but I'd vote him out like a shot if there was a real contender who could talk to me not just union cronies.
     
    wanet, emerald52 and Burndenpark like this.
  10. Calpurnia99

    Calpurnia99 Star commenter

    Ooooh a Labour love-in. How many people still read a paper to be told what to think? It's comforting (to you maybe) to believe that anyone not voting Labour since the 70s is merely the dimwitted victim of biased reporting but it seems even less likely now than then.

    Corbyn was voted in fair and square by a party membership who cannot have been unaware of how he comes over to the rest of the electorate. I'm fine with a socialist in charge of the Labour party but the rest of the country has moved right, which is how NuLabour got in.

    Nobody seems to want 70s throwback socialism here anymore. Convince them they do and Corbyn will forge forward and conquer the country. Good luck with that.
     
    wanet, magic surf bus and VanEyssen like this.
  11. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    Pardon??? when did I say that? please clarify.
     
  12. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    I think Corbyn uses social media more than the Tory media. sounds like a good idea to me actually. You miss the point of my post.
     
  13. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    I think Corbyn is an honourable man with honourable intentions, but he does not get the message a cross. The square eyed idiots who gawp at the tellybox all day can only absorb soundbites, which is how that slug Farage has got to the point of influence that he has. No doubt when he ceases to be an MEP he will still draw their severance pay or pension or whatever they get after they have served.

    The whole political system in this country is ripe for overhaul, but while we have a first past the post system it is not in the interest of the MPs to do it. As someone said above, they just want to keep their seats i.e. job/snout in trough.
     
    Laphroig, lexus300 and red_observer like this.
  14. red_observer

    red_observer Established commenter

    ODd that you say people who agree with each other is a "love in...?"" I do think that the papers influence people specially on line nowadays .The papers have followed Goebbels comment that the more lies you tell people the more they believe it...so that's why people belive the lies...and yes some people are thick...has to be said.
    I don't say all people who don't vote labour are dimwits but labour under Blair/Brown ****** off Labour voters especially in Scotland.
    I also Don't AGREE that the country had moved to the Right...only 27% voted Tory at the last election if I'm right?
     
  15. Calpurnia99

    Calpurnia99 Star commenter

    The mindset is right-facing. It's not necessarily reflected in voting practice.
    I believe 37% voted Con as against 30% for Labour.
     
  16. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    You didn't. Sadiq Khan made a speech to the Scottish Labour conference yesterday which compared support for Scottish independence to Brexit and Trump and called it a populist, narrow nationalism which played people against each other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  17. Brunel

    Brunel Occasional commenter

    I don't really want to get involved in this discussion. As one of the Tory-planted trolls that Jacob refers to, I'm allowed Sundays off from the vital work of influencing small numbers of teacher types. It's not pleasant work but somebody has to do it. It takes its toll which is why we are given a day off per week. It's not written into the contract you understand - being a Tory dupe there obviously is no contract and in all honesty payment by results hasn't yielded many bonuses yet.Still, we soldier on.
    Anyhow, since I'm writing this in a personal capacity rather than as a paid lackey could I suggest that the use of the phrase 'great unwashed' may not be entirely helpful in moving the debate forward. Of all the many and varied reasons for Labour's plight that are being advanced, having the wrong sort of working-class may not be the most persuasive.
     
    Jesmond12, wanet, Burndenpark and 2 others like this.
  18. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Corbyn is **** at social media. I follow him on twitter and he uses it like a billboard to paste the occasional slogan across. There's no real engagement.
     
    CraigCarterSmith and lindenlea like this.
  19. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    So how do we get the other 33% on board? It is a fact that the so-called working class (who no longer exist) note the Tories in every time they win an election. The Tories make vague but big promises at election time, then shaft everybody, yet the stupid plonkers vote them in again. I expect that there is tangible evidence of the financial position the average man/woman would be in now if the sainted Maggie had not got in in 1979. We would be an entirely different country. (Cue fascist responses) What is wrong with socialism? At least our old folks might have decent homes and be looked after properly, the mentally ill might not have been dumped on the streets by Maggie (care in the community, what a hoot!) and we might actually have some manufacturing not owned by foreign interests to where all the profit goes.
     
    red_observer likes this.
  20. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    No, that's not really true. The Labour vote in Scotland collapsed when they shared a platform with the Tories to support the Union. Brown had a lot of trust up here until his ill-judged intervention and support of "the vow". A lot of the anti-Blair sentiment came retrospectively - there are people here now who think he should be locked up for the Iraq war but at the time and for some time afterwards still broadly supported him.
     

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