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Homophobic hate campaign in Birmingham turns even darker

Discussion in 'Personal' started by xmal, May 20, 2019.

  1. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

  2. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Don't. I've just done Prevent training. What about the alleged British values enshrined therein?

    Oh, well. All too depressing. Britons today seem less and less tolerant. Of every stripe and hue.
    Laphroig likes this.
  3. Bentley89

    Bentley89 Occasional commenter

    This Shakeel Afsar sounds like a primitive *****.
    hplovegame48 likes this.
  4. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

  5. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    As in - don't speak about it. It's so damned depressing/appalling/enraging.

    But also hugely important.
  6. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    Tell that to the BBC and the rest of the media. I agree that we seem to have gone from one of the most liberal countries in the world to one that is becoming more intolerant but the way to defeat this is by discussing and challenging it; not by ignoring it.
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    As far as this particular issue is concerned, it is mainly only one particular segment of society that is showing intolerance.

    I agree. If people expect tolerance of their religion, then they in turn must show tolerance of the values of the society in which they live.
  8. theselofane

    theselofane Occasional commenter

    That is the important bit.
  9. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Personally I do not see this issue as a "homophobic hate campaign".

    The protests are not being directed at LGBT people, but at a school which is teaching about LGBT matters to the pupils. The protesters are have on several occasions (at least, some of those who were interviewed on television) made it clear that they object to the school's curriculum, not any sections of society.

    I also feel that elevating this to the status of "hate campaign", (homophobic or otherwise) is just conflagration.

    That said, I do consider that the manner in the protests are being voiced is wrong, that the protester Shakeel Asfar (who has no children at the school) should butt out and mind his own business. He really has no business being there. The matter is between the parents and the school.

    As for religious beliefs, all religious beliefs are bunkum by definition (IMO) so if that can be put to one side then the matter for a great many parents is to do with the age of the children and the curriculum being used to teach them. Nothing more.

    At the current time both the school and the disgruntled parents appear to be digging their heels in and refusing to move. This is not helping the children or their education.
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    Dragonlady30, dumpty, lanokia and 4 others like this.
  10. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It is indirect discrimination against the LGBT community. Try substituting coloured people for GGBT people:

    "I don't want my child taught about coloured people because in my world, coloured people should not exist".

    Would that be an acceptable demand in Britain today? I do not think so.
    blazer, Bentley89, xmal and 3 others like this.
  11. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    I have to agree with @florian gassmann.
  12. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    I would agree, if this is what is being said.

    As far as I can see from the news reports, it isn't.

    The parents are trying to make it clear that their grievance is that they are not being allowed any say in what their children are taught and at what age.


    They do not wish to be seen as homophobic.


    What does seem to be being said is "I don't want my child to be taught about LGBT issues at their age."

    There is no doubt that some homophobes will jump on this particular bandwagon but this seems to be far more a matter of parental choice than a "homophobic hate campaign".
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    border_walker likes this.
  13. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Do they want a say in the maths curriculum or the content of physics lessons? Do they wish to decide what sports are taught in games lessons, what punishments the school should enforce and which books should be studied in English lessons? Or is it only the teaching of LGBT issues that they wish to dictate?
  14. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Not in this case but parents certainly have voiced such concerns in schools, particularly in the case or rugby and hockey with their comparatively high rates of injury.

    Absolutely yes! Ever had parents refusing to allow their children to attend an after school detention? I have.

    I recall my mother having very strong views about D H Lawrence's "Sons and Lovers" being one of my 'O'-Level set books in the late 1960s.

    In this case. Yes.

    Should parents be denied any input into what their children are taught in school or should the Nanny State be permitted to dictate and enforce everything?

    FWIW, I still see this as a essentially a parental protest and not a "homophobic hate campaign".
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  15. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    However,education is not a buffet where parents or pupils can choose and opt out of what is being taught. What is the parents believed the earth is flat? What if they think the nazis were the good guys? What if they believe that 4 is only one of the valid answers to the questions what is 2+2?
  16. nizebaby

    nizebaby Star commenter

    The age of the children. Yes.
  17. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Strange you should use that in an argument. :D

    Believe it or not, sometimes 2 + 2 does not equal 4. It depends on what type of measurement scale you are using. There are four types of measurement scales – nominal, ordinal, interval, and ratio. Only in the last two categories does 2 + 2 = 4.

    Would you like me to explain?
    border_walker likes this.
  18. T34

    T34 Established commenter

    It's somewhat different from your coloured example, I'm afraid.
    These protesters think being LBGT is a choice and at the back of their minds is the possibility that if it is tolerated or promoted even slightly, some of their kids might take up that choice which would lower the parent' status in their community.
    It always boils down to self interest at the bottom of it all.

    No such "encouragent towards" problem with promoting other equalities, like that of coloured people.
  19. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    In my day it was teachers who decided what is taught in schools. Not parents and not the nanny state.

    Allowing parent power, stoked by religion, is a dangerous route to go down. Should holocaust deniers dictate how the history of World War Two should be taught? Should creationists insist that evolution cannot be taught in our schools?
    hplovegame48 and smoothnewt like this.
  20. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    There is ample evidence that that is not the case. Creationists might try to insist that evolution is not taught in schools. That does not make them right.
    hplovegame48 likes this.

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