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Holocaust Memorial Day: 'Shocking' levels of denial remain

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Weald56, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    I found this deeply worrying. What more can be done to remedy this, I wonder?

    "Five per cent of UK adults do not believe the Holocaust took place and one in 12 believes its scale has been exaggerated, a survey has found.

    The poll of more than 2,000 people was carried out by Opinion Matters for the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust (HMDT).

    Almost two-thirds of respondents could not say how many Jews were murdered or "grossly" under-estimated the number."

    cassandramark2 and nomad like this.
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I wonder who the 5% are... :rolleyes:
    sparklesparkle and nomad like this.
  3. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I honestly don't know. It's still covered in schools pretty well I think? My dad saw what had happened and said it should have been on TV every day so people couldn't forget. However, I guess the further we get from it, and with our changing lifestyles. it has become easier to misrepresent it to others and I expect a fair number don't even hear much about it these days if they don't watch the news and stick to netflix and the like.
    Jesmond12, Weald56 and lanokia like this.
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It's covered... how well it is covered it open to interpretation.

    History teaching will be solid. RE will cover it [or should]. I'm covering it in PSHE right now but that will be highly variable as the teaching staff are plucked from across the curriculum so it does depends on how much each teacher knows.
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes. I suspect not all younger teachers have a proper understanding and knowledge of it. I've been drawn into it in the odd lesson and I get the impression that although pupils have a vague idea of what happened, their understanding is poor. Go into any amount of detail and they become eerily silent and wide-eyed. So as you say, children will still "get it", as long as there are people to deliver it properly.
  6. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    It may resolve itself over time.

    I learned nothing about the Holocaust as a pupil at school. Perhaps in the 1950s and 60s the c country was trying to forget the war, not perpetuate it's memory.

    Now the Holocaust seems to be on all parts of the Curriculum. RE, PSHE, history and through English literature (e.g., I am David, The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, etc). Most of the pupils I taught know the figure is six million.

    That said, the Holocaust does seem to be singled out for special recognition. How many UK adults know that prior to the collapse of the USSR and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin's regime were 20 million or higher.

    Can anyone here give the number of deaths from the Cambodian genocide carried out by the Khmer Rouge regime without looking it up?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  7. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Yep... exactly what happened to me last week... just google maps and a few google images entries and 30 teenagers will sit there in silence as you lay the horror out to them.
    Scintillant likes this.
  8. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    TBH, 5-10% of adults being ignorant on any historical subject is not particularly surprising - that propably equates to the levels of low educational achievement and illiteracy in the country. Possibly same audience would have been equally challenged answering questions on any subject?
    lilachardy, nomad and monicabilongame like this.
  9. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    Agree. I'm a lot less concerned about Holocaust denial than I am about those who still deny or excuse the Holodomor, the Gulag, the Khmer Rouge or Mao's Great Famine. Those things don't get taught. I wonder why?
  10. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Or the number of Tutsis killed by the Hutus in the Rwandan genocide?
    Brunel and nomad like this.
  11. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    People who knock about on the dark web, QAnon true believers etc. I'm quite heartened to find the figure is as low as 5% - perhaps many of these people were ashamed to own up to their true beliefs.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  12. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

  13. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    Actually the scale of killings in the various purges by Stalin in the USSR in the 1930s is often taught (or was when I was teaching history for over 30 years). I think I probably taught it to one group or more every year.

    And whilst teaching the Holocaust (esp. for Holocaust Memorial Day) good practice always encouraged mention of other genocides, esp. the more recent ones. But there is a limit to how many examples of genocide one can teach in the time available.
    nomad likes this.
  14. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    I agree - but a higher number don't believe the accepted figure of deaths (just not Jewish, of course) - being around 6 million. In the Guardian report of this poll it says:

    "Almost half of those questioned said they did not know how many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, and one in five grossly underestimated the number, saying that fewer than two million were killed. At least six million Jews died".
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Don't think it's quite so simple.

    Seems like UK universities are harbouring this sort of thinking too...


    And of course the difference between ignorance and actively lying about events.
    Mrsmumbles and sparklesparkle like this.
  16. mothorchid

    mothorchid Star commenter

    I was shocked by this statistic too. I am suspicious that the type of rubbish peddled on Twitter and facebook etc are partly responsible for it. I cannot believe that people didn't get taught about it a number of times in school. Let alone assemblies etc. (In my own family, I know it was covered in a very careful way, in KS1.) How well they listened and learned is another matter...
  17. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Because there's not enough time to teach all that needs teaching in the History curriculum as it is. Hands up you History teachers who teach Nelson and Trafalgar; Wellington and Waterloo; the Second World War fully; the Cold War fully. As it is, the increased emphasis on our national story has driven European or World History topics to the rarely-taught margins.
    Weald56 likes this.
  18. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Presumably they were given a choice (2, 3, 4 or 6 million) and that's the number who ticked the first box.
    nomad likes this.
  19. MustaphaMondeo

    MustaphaMondeo Occasional commenter

    Surely denial is equivalent?

    It's a question of perspective Dougal. There is small, and there is far away. I'm reasonably certain that the leftist mass murdering genocides are not being denied, but are further away. Time and distancewise. Pol Pot is the shocker. For me. I like a Marxist perspective and cannot envisage how it became the Killing Fields. My lack I guess.
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

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