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Holocaust denial survey

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    From the ludicrously dubious statistics below I infer that Holocaust education charities are having trouble paying prestigious rents and managing generous expense accounts:

    Holocaust Memorial Day: 'Shocking' levels of denial remain

    'Five per cent of UK adults do not believe the Holocaust took place and one in 12 believes its scale has been exaggerated, a survey has found.

    The poll of more than 2,000 people was carried out by Opinion Matters for the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust (HMDT).
    BBC.co.uk, 27th January 2019.

    The company who released these figures, Opinion Matters, does not appear to have a live website but is owned in parallel with a number of PR and marketing companies.
  2. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Truly disgusting.

    You suggest that "They" have made the Holocaust into an industry. And a lucrative one at that - 'prestigious rents' and 'generous expense accounts' no less! This is one of the cornerstones of Holocaust denial. And you question the results of a survey which finds that 'shocking levels of denial remain'. And on a website for educators too...
    xmal, Brunel, Weald56 and 2 others like this.
  3. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Oh really? I was able to locate it within a few seconds, using a search engine. https://www.opinionmatters.com/

    The site is busy and it took a few moments to load. I expect this is because those lovely people who attack Rachel Riley are sending it hate mail.

    Oh, well that must mean that this is just a PR and marketing exercise! PR and marketing for those charities with 'prestigious rents' and 'generous expense accounts'... Their website states:
    "Opinion Matters is an award-winning insight agency. Our consultants create bespoke market research solutions for businesses, organisations and agencies worldwide."
    Can you please explain why you find their methods questionable? Do you have a background in market research yourself?
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Who are '"They"'?

    Yes, really. It was not working when I opened this thread.

    Says it all, really.
  5. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    You said it 'does not appear to have a live website'. A site which is busy is still live. Your statement would mislead someone who didn't check for themselves.

    What does it say, please? That they are an established and award-winning market research agency and not, as you suggest, a PR and advertising outfit? I asked you to explain why you find their methods questionable. Can you answer this, please?
  6. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I suspect in the good old US of A that figure is rather higher.
  7. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    The Holocaust Memorial Day Trust is funded by the UK government and its patron is the Prince of Wales. They have a registered office in the City of London but I can find no evidence of 'prestigious rents'. Can you explain this, please?

    Can you provide evidence of their 'generous expense accounts', please? This statement is potentially libellous.
    Weald56 likes this.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    There was no website when I visited the URL.

    The survey is a marketing exercise, no more & no less.
  9. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    And yet I was able to find it with ease, simply by tying the company name into google. How strange!

    You think that the message of the Holocaust is being 'marketed' in some way, do you? Please explain this. Who is marketing it? Why are they marketing it? Anti-Semites complain that the Holocaust has become an industry. You complain about 'prestigious rents' and 'generous expense accounts'. The word 'marketing' indicates commercial activity - can you please explain why you are using it?
    needabreak likes this.
  10. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I would love to see the questions asked in the survey and the range of answers provided, but neither organisations seems to have listed any details of the survey.
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  11. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Olivia Marks-Woldman, of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said: “I must stress that I don’t think [the poll respondents] are active Holocaust deniers – people who deliberately propagate and disseminate vile distortions. But their ignorance means they are susceptible to myths and distortions.” Yes, I would concur. This is where social media and the Internet are truly dangerous. People are being exposed to Holocaust deniers' arguments now whereas before they would only hear them by buying dubious publications ("Did the Six Million Really Die?") outside London East End football grounds. As ever, myths get round the world several times before the truth has got its socks on.
  12. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    5% is a pretty small %age probably some of those didn't understand the question, have questionable English, were in a hurry or just ticked the wrong box.
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  13. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    When the answers are provided, the questions are not difficult to work out. The BBC report states: "Five per cent of UK adults do not believe the Holocaust took place". I would expect most teachers to conclude the question was "Do you believe the Holocaust took place?"

    "Almost two-thirds of respondents could not say how many Jews were murdered or "grossly" under-estimated the number."

    From this I would conclude the second question was: "How many Jews were murdered or gassed?"

    Would you disagree with this?

  14. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    If that was the second question then I doubt even 1% would get the correct answer. If fact does anyone actually know the answer to that question? More likely it was a multiple choice question
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Then you should not bandy around terms like 'potentially libellous' when you have no idea of the issue at hand.

    Spent over £100K last year on rent and leases. Publicly available information.

    No it is not, but you are getting close yourself.
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Not really. Perhaps their server was denying service due to high traffic. Seems to be happening on and off, e.g. it was unreachable again several minutes ago:

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  17. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    "Almost half of those questioned said they did not know how many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, and one in five grossly underestimated the number, saying that fewer than two million were killed. At least six million Jews died." It could have been multiple choice, but the results are still worrying. Unpleasant groups claim the numbers were grossly exaggerated and these unpleasant groups are active on social media.
  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I have not, so do be careful where you imply anti-Semitism.
  19. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    The 'issues at hand' are that you claimed the Holocaust Memorial Education Trust is "having trouble...managing generous expense accounts". Where is the evidence of generous expense accounts? If you do not have it, and it appears you don't, this is potentially libellous. The words "having trouble" in connection with this survey would imply that money is a motivation. Can you please clarify that you did not mean to suggest this. You have posted several times but haven't tried to clear up any ambiguity. If the wording were a genuine mistake I would expect a poster to clarify or stop posting and ask for the thread to be taken down. You have done neither.
    I note with interest that you actually went looking for the information. Where is the evidence, please? In any case it appears to be cheap for London. You stated: "From the ludicrously dubious statistics below I infer that Holocaust education charities are having trouble paying prestigious rent". You infer that the motivation for 'dubious statistics' is raising money for rent. And it is rent on 'prestigious' offices no less! The charity which commissioned the survey is funded by the UK Government. Can you please provide your evidence for inferring that they are 'having trouble paying prestigious rent'? And they do not publish the location for their offices, by the way. This reason for this can be found in some sentiments expressed in this thread.
  20. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Please indicate where I have implied it.

    Your tone is interesting to say the least.

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