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Holiday whilst in long term sick after major surgery

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by laurenln22, May 8, 2017.

  1. laurenln22

    laurenln22 New commenter

    Hi, I wonder if anyone could help. I'm due to have a liver resection in July for some benign (thank goodness) tumours which I have to have removed.
    I will be unable to go on holiday during July or August and possibly September owing to my recovery which can be around 3 months if all goes to plan. I was wondering if anyone knew if I would be able to go on holiday before I returned to work towards the end of my sick note (once my surgeons and specialist said I was able to of course) given that it is likely to fall within term time? I'm not sure what the 'rules' regarding this would be and can't seem to find anything regarding it in the burgundy book. Thanks in advance :)
  2. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    Burgundy book is irrelevant. If you were unable to take annual leave because of sickness absence, you are entitled to take it later. You also continue to accrue entitlement to (statutory) annual leave while on sick leave.
    bonxie, phlogiston and laurenln22 like this.
  3. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    I would also say that fit enough for a convalescent holiday may not be fit enough for work.
    I would suggest that you consider carefully the pictures of the holiday you post on social media. It may cause problems if they were to give the impression you were fit enough to work.
  4. Sundaytrekker

    Sundaytrekker Star commenter

    I have had examples of recuperating staff taking (gentle!) holiday while still signed off as not fit for work. I don't think, with teacher's contracts, that you would be able to have a holiday week after you are fit for work but before returning. I know other people continue to accrue holiday whilst on sick leave but I don't see how this works in school. One I would ask for HR advice on!
  5. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    You can accrue entitlement to holiday leave while on sick leave, just as if you are on maternity leave. Once you are fit to work, you can then ask to take the holiday you have missed.

    Schools are not exempt from the law. This is EU law for you!
    bonxie likes this.
  6. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I hesitate to question GLsghost, but my understanding was that with maternity leave (and presumably sick leave is similar), you accrue the entitlement to statutory holiday leave, which is four weeks per annum. That means you're entitled to have those weeks the following year, but since you're likely to have thirteen weeks anyway, it doesn't affect anything. The exception is when someone leaves teaching altogether - I'm not quite sure how it works, and I think it depends on the "leave year": if the first part of maternity leave falls in a leave year for which they've already had four weeks, it would then just be pro rata for the part of the next leave year that has passed.

    However I can't see why you can't go on a recuperative holiday during the last part of your sick leave, if the doctor thinks this appropriate. It probably ought to be sitting on a beach or some gentle pottering, not skiing, though, and it might be wise to mention to the head "you won't be able to get hold of me the week before I return, I'm afraid: I'm going to take a few days admiring the Cornish scenery, as we couldn't get away in the summer - my doctor said that should be okay if I take things gently". Then if (s)he hears rumours, they're in a position to scotch them.
  7. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    As a practical solution, might it be a good idea to tell your school that the doctor has said that a recuperative holiday would be a good idea before you go? Then if you get some whatsit complaining "xxx is having a holiday when she is supposed to be ill..." the school will already know. Just a thought. But I would take care that any photos people might see look like recuperation!

    Seriously, I hope the operation and recovery go well.
    laurenln22 and Rott Weiler like this.
  8. Tinycat1234

    Tinycat1234 Established commenter

    Can you tell me more about accruing holiday whilst on Maternity Leave?
  9. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

  10. Sundaytrekker

    Sundaytrekker Star commenter

    As frustum says, I had understood that as teacher's holidays are longer than the EU minimum they would cover the regulations in instances such as maternity anyway. So it should be ok here, I think, but must be taken in the school holiday periods.
  11. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    I don't think I understand the point you are making here.

    Entitlement to accrue holiday is provided for, whether the annual leave is statutory minimum or contractually more. Women are entitled to take leave accrued when they return from maternity leave, in discussion with their employers.

    If teachers took it during normal school holiday periods, they would have lost the benefit of the accrued holiday leave 'because of' being on maternity leaver - and that would be an act of unlawful discrimination.

    The EHRC link I posted above explains the rules simply and clearly - which is why I posted it.

    My daughter is not a teacher but works in a public service that is also quite well remunerated with holiday entitlement. When she returned to work, at the end of her maternity leave, she was able to do so for three days per week but with pay for a full five days, as she was able to use her accrued holiday entitlement to cover the additional two days. She returned in February and this arrangement has been running since then. I think she finally returns for four days in September, having negotiated flexible working for three days with one day working-from-home.
  12. Sundaytrekker

    Sundaytrekker Star commenter

    I think HR have explained to me that teachers are entitled to accrued holiday pay after returning from maternity leave but because teachers holidays are longer than the statutory amounts the accrued amounts can be within this.

    I've never known any teachers gain extra time off as you describe for your daughter's arrangement. They have to request part time working. They are, however, allowed to return from maternity leave on the first day of a holiday period e.g. the long summer break then get paid from that point so perhaps that also encompasses it?

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