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Holiday pay reduction for ALL teachers, permanent or supply - is anyone else aware of this?

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by denzel2000, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. To be honest, it wouldn't have made any difference if other unions had flagged this up, these changes to the pay and conditions of supply teachers was railroaded through by the largest union in the country (and many of their members), the SG and the LAs. The other unions were unable to influence the decision in any way.
    I, too, followed the situation closely and felt sure that I understood many of the changes and, ultimately, their effect on me but I was wrong. I have had a horrible experience so far and can only hope that I have now got to grips with the basics.
    I thought exactly the same and can't believe that, not only has our daily rate been destroyed but our holiday pay has been affected too. I have been lucky enough to secure one day a week probationer cover but only at point 1. The thought that my holiday pay has also suffered is demoralising but sadly, in the current climate of 'supply teacher bashing', not surprising.
  2. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    That's certainly how it was sold by Cosla and the LAs to Councillors not on the negotiating committee (i.e. almost all of them.) If it's not true, and if teachers are getting paid less as a result, then the decision has been taken based on false advice. Not sure how we could go about rewinding it though.
    Si - you mentioned before about your contract and the fact you didn't get one until September. When did you actually start in school - was it September, or did you start in August? If you started in August, then I'd expect that to be the date the contract started at the latest,
  3. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    A rough guess; 32 and counting.
  4. piglet171

    piglet171 New commenter

    " I have been lucky enough to secure one day a week probationer cover but only at point 1. The thought that my holiday pay has also suffered is demoralising but sadly,"
    This should be treated as a fixed term contract as it is regular and ongoing and you should be paid to scale. Aberdeenshire council website had an ad for a probationer support contract.Not sure if still there but its scandalous that LAs are making up their own rules. It's almost like a competition between them to see who can treat supply teachers worst...
  5. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    I started the job on the first day of term in Aug (in fact was there on a pointage since last Jan!).
  6. ScotSEN

    ScotSEN Senior commenter

    piglet if your contract is for a regualr 1 day a week you should be paid to scale. Get on to your union if you don't get anywhere with the council.
  7. piglet171

    piglet171 New commenter

    Sorry if my post was unclear.It's Velma who needs to get on with the council. I was pointing out that Aberdeenshire treat this as a contract situation, whereas Velma's LA/school appear to be treating it as casual supply
  8. ScotSEN

    ScotSEN Senior commenter

    sorry piglet. Shouldn't reply after a glass or two of wine!
    Aberdeen City also treat this as a contract situation. From what I remember of the meeting when this was brought up they said that this was what they had been instructed to do by central government. To be honest the HT's present at the meeting were desperate to be able to pay staff on this type of work at the scale because the 4 and a half hour thing was driving them bananas!
    Where ever Velma is they seem to be pulling fast one!
  9. Response as follows - appears to confirm what some have said on here already:
    The old situation was that teachers were employed for 195 days and had 66
    days paid holiday. The daily rate was therefore annual salary divided by
    261 days (195 plus 66). The accrued holiday pay was therefore 66/195 =
    0.3385. This calculation applies to all work up to and including 31st
    August 2011.

    The new situation, which applies to this salary year and started on 1 Sept
    2011, is that you are employed for 195 days plus 40 days paid holiday. The
    daily rate is therefore annual salary divided by 235 days (195 plus 40).
    The accrued holiday pay is therefore 40/195 - 0.2051.

    As you can see, the daily rate of pay (1/235 rather than 1/261) is higher
    and the accrued holiday pay is lower 0.2051 rather than 0.3385. The overall
    salary for anyone working on a permanent part time or full time or fixed
    term contract will be exactly the same! For anyone paid through payroll
    (rather than claiming on forms) the calculation will simply be annual
    salary/12. Anyone claiming on forms will receive a higher daily rate but
    lower accrued holiday pay.

    *The rate reduction in accrued holiday pay is entirely compensated for by
    the increased daily rate. With all due respect, it is obvious that if you
    reduce the number of paid holidays, then you receive less holiday pay!
    However, the overall salary remains the same as you receive a higher daily

    *A teacher working on long term or permanent will receive the exact same
    salary as they did before - albeit the daily rate is higher and holiday pay
    is lower.

    *Accrued holiday pay is a contractual entitlement and if someone, for
    example, left on the 1st June, the employer would have to pay accrued
    holiday pay. In that sense it does not matter when the contract ends, any
    accrued holiday pay would have to be paid on termination of the contract

    *The above applies to all teachers and so permanent teachers will be
    paid for only 40 days holidays. However, your annual salary will remain
    exactly the same (as you may have noticed in your salary statement).

    It is worth recalling that COSLA wanted this change and it will only have a
    detrimental impact on teachers on maternity leave. There was a recent European Court ruling that employees accrued contractual leave when on maternity leave. In England, the way their conditions of service are written , this meant that they would accrue the statutory minimum of 28 days when on ML. In Scotland it meant that 66 day were accrued. This is the reason why COSLA wanted our conditions rewritten to save this additional financial burden and the 40 days was to bring us in line with other COSLA employees. It has no detrimental impact on anyone else other than teachers on ML or adoption leave.
    I'd only dispute the last sentence. Whilst, yes there is effectively no loss of salary, I think that I'd prefer the lower daily rate of pay in favour of a higher level of income during the summer break, but maybe that's just me, coming from a system in Australia where supply teachers are paid an hourly rate that includes all holiday and sick pay accruals. At the end of term, your income drops to zero.

  10. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    Thankyou for posting this response, Railroadgin! I am confused then, why both HR and my local union are telling me that if I'm there til the last day, I'll get paid through the summer, but if not, they won't. I think the confusion may be that I am being paid through payroll ie not claiming on forms so I am salaried- therefore my salary is paid out in monthly installments not by the days worked. I guess the best thing to do is to squirrel money away and see what happens.

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