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Holiday pay included in daily rate

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by Lunaria, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. Hi,
    The agency that I have done some work for has included holiday pay as part of the daily rate I've queried this and they state that this was in the contract. What is actually stated on the contract is "paid together with and in addition to the hourly rate". I have never worked for anyone that inflated a salary by quoting a rate that included holiday pay. I believe this is fraudulent but before I take it further, has anyone else had a similar experience?
     
  2. Hi,
    The agency that I have done some work for has included holiday pay as part of the daily rate I've queried this and they state that this was in the contract. What is actually stated on the contract is "paid together with and in addition to the hourly rate". I have never worked for anyone that inflated a salary by quoting a rate that included holiday pay. I believe this is fraudulent but before I take it further, has anyone else had a similar experience?
     
  3. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's not fraudulent.
    If you worked for the LA supply service, as I do, you'd also get pro-rata holiday built into your daily or hourly rate .
    Think about it: you get sent to multiple schools for differing amounts of time. How can the employing schools (through agency or LA ) pay their share of your holiday entitlement? It would be impossible for my employer to first of all charge my various schools for odd days of my service and then go back to them at each half-term or end of term holiday and say "You employed jubilee for 6 days and now owe her £x in holiday pay"
    With 'to scale' LA pay, I get my annual salary divided by 195 for each full day worked and annual salary divided by 975 for each hour worked. I thus get earnings and holiday pay in the ratio 39:13 (or 3:1) just as contract teachers do. permanent teachers get the same pay each month , work 39 school weeks and have 13 holiday weeks.
    Agencies do not pay 'to scale' and do not give the 3:1 ratio for holidy pay either. It tends to be about 10% of the bsic hourly/daily rate. Some agencies pay it each week with your expected pay and others hold onto the holiday pay element and hand it over in the next holiday period when the teacher requests it. Some teachers are unaware that pay has been withheld and do not request it as soon as they could. The agencies, of course, are quite happy to look after it for you!
     
  4. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Employers did not used to have to give holiday pay to part-time or casual workers. Legislation was brought in a few years ago making it compulsory. prior to that, many employers (supermarkets etc) deliberately staffed their store with mainly p/t workers (below 20 hours per week too so keeping below NI levels for staff and employer).
    Teaching agencies did not want to put up rates to schools or to cut their profit margins so they looked at the hourly/daily rate being paid for each teacher and decided that it now included holiday pay. For some agencies that withhold holiday pay, it meant that they reduced their weekly payroll and their employer NI contribution. The holiday element would then be handed over in a week when standard pay was not forthcoming and a slice of the pay would use up the NI free element of each pay packet, resulting in an overall saving of employer costs on EXACTLY the same employee pay.
     
  5. Thank you for the information. If I had been informed at the outset that the daily rate included holiday pay, I would have negotiated for a higher daily rate. The actual rate paid is almost 20% less than scale pay, with the agency making a profit of £110 each day I'm employed. It may not be fraudulent, but it is shocking practice.
    Once again, thank you for your replies.
     
  6. I knew from the outset that my holiday pay was being paid in addition to my hourly rate but even taking that into account I am being paid 25% less than my scale rate. I tried asking for a higher rate but with no success. The only good thing is I do have plenty of work now but the pay is appalling.
     
  7. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    I don't know how they get away with it.
    Some time ago I was with the same agency and they paid the same rate as they do today. When the European Laws about holiday pay came into force their response was that it had always been inbuilt into their daily rate so they did not have to increase the daily rate. I had no way of challenging it. I have worked for this agency now for a further 3 - 4 years.... perhaps I should challenge them about this................... imagine all that back pay of £8/9 per day I would be owed.


     
  8. Unfortunately that wouldn't work, as you have to claim back your holiday pay within the same contract year. Watch out for this loophole -the agency is unlikely to remind you!
     
  9. I've just fallen foul of the holiday pay loophole with Hays. I was owed 2.73 hours of holiday pay but because you can only claim a minimum of 3 hours holiday pay at any time I was unable to claim it before the end of the year.
    What really annoys me is that I was owed a days pay for a day I did on 10th December but because the school didn't authorise it until yesterday, if it had been processed before the end of the year I would have gained enough extra holidays to push me above the 3 hours and so would have been able to claim all my holiday pay. I'm determined to have a fight with the agency because it is totally unfair that I've been penalised because a school has been slow at authorising my timesheet.
     
  10. I gather they have to specify it on your timesheet as a separate thing. My old employer "selected" not to.
     
  11. The law says that rolled up pay has to be done in a transparent and comprehensive manner and should genuinely be in addition to your daily rate. If the proprtion that is holiday pay has increased but the total pay has not, you could argue that it is not in addition to normal pay.
    Employers can offset any rolled up payments they have made in a lawful way against a claim for unpaid holidays. There is little to be gained in complaining about rolled up pay although it is illegal because of this reason.
    Interestingly we are going to an employment tribual to do with rolled up holiday pay.

     
  12. Are you serious??

    It might not be fair, but you are a fool if you have a row with your agency over a few pounds.


    Supply teachers in many areas are plentiful and there is always another batch of NQTs around the corner to pick from.


    Guess who won't be getting much work after that little discussion.
     

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