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Don't forget to look at the how to guide.
Discussion in 'Early Years' started by mancminx, Jul 20, 2011.
No comment on the data I gave you,masha?
I should say this is in nursey so when they start reception they can begin learningsound grapheme correspondences and how to read and write words and sentences
Actually, then you follow the same progression as Letters and Sounds. What is the point of learning onset and rime, if you do not then use it to support reading through looking at rhyming strings and how the rime is repeated graphically in each word? And I don't see the point of blending words with digraphs if you are not also learning the digraph. Yes, blend them because they are there, but it would not matter if it was a digraph, trigraph or grapheme really if it's just about recognising sounds in spoken words. That's valuable in itself but not because it might be a digraph was the word written.
And I'm not sure what teach/check segmenting of rhyme generation is. Maybe you could explain that a bit more. Sorry if I am being a bit dim, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.
You are making those assumptions again thumbie and have grabbed the wrong end of the stick with both hands.
Sorry but we don't follow the same progression as L&S.
Have you ever used JP? if you have you will be aware that children are taught to read and write words with the same rime ...at words in the outline of a cat ... og words in the outline of a dog ...ig words in the outline of a pig etc etc
Yes, my assumption from your modifying statement here was that you taught onset and rime orally only, as you then taught GPCs in reception. I assumed that you kept off graphemes while talking about onset and rime, and certainly kept off teaching digraphs, until you started on GPCs. I'm pretty flumoxed!Are you deliberately trying to confuse? You seem to enjoy it when you are misunderstood, as if you have scored a point or something. I suppose we all assume things when reading posts. If I had known I was assuming something, it wouldn't have been an assumption, would it? So give me some credit for trying my best with your posts, please.
I have not used JP. Can I assume that you teach writing and reading words through the use of onset and rime before you start systematic teaching of the alphabetic code? can I assume that you teach reading of words with digraphs before you start systematically teaching the alphabetic code?
I was trying to clarify that this begins orally in nursery (no letter /sounds taught at this stage)
I'm not sure how you think we can teach reading and writing using onset and rime before a child has learnt how to recognise and write individual graphemes
My applogies I wrongly assumed you had an in depth knowledge/understanding of how phonics is taught.
Now we both have made assumptions
I do have a decent knowledge of how phonics is taught, thank you.
Now you need to look back over your last few posts (and mine).
I thought I was having a discussion with a rational person. Are you trolling?
Certainly not...are you?
My apologies again ... your questions led me to assume you hadn't studied phonics in any real depth . I'm happy to be corrected but still confused by your questions about what I thought were fundamental concepts.
Precisely. But if you read your posts, that seemed to be exactly what you were doing.
I couldn't believe what I was reading, so tried to check my assumptions. Evidently they were wrong. But read your posts again msz, what was I (and others - assuming there are any left still reading this thread) supposed to assume?
I'm assuming now that you orally rehearse onset and rime and blending sounds in nursery, then you introduce GPCs in reception, then at some point use the JP rhyming string activities you mention. Is that it?
Linguistic Phonics teaches reading and spelling by building on speech. The first step is providing children with lots of opportunities for speaking and listening so they begin by listening to words that they say everyday: noticing syllables, rhyme and eventually individual
sounds. Next they are taught how these sounds are represented by
In reception children should begin to learn to say each sound, moving left to right,
and put these together to read a word. At this stage they are working with the written form but continue to play with words. So I might ask a child to write "at" on the whiteboard then challenge the class to change at into bat and then cat and then hat into that ...etc... so they begin to understand that only the initial sound changes.
Later we might write silly sentences about Ellie likes to eat smelly jelly but if gives her a pain in the belly or Jake helps to bake a cake for his pet snake so we are blending and segmenting and rhyming and having fun with words.
This is a simple guide to how linguistic phonics was taught in the Belfast study (it differs slightly from the way I work as my teaching has evolved over time to incorpotate what works for my setting).
Because of our catchment we place a huge emphasis on speaking and listening and work on the premise that children need to have the oral skills first and if they can't say it they can't write/read it.
In nursery the focus is on developing the disposition to read and write as children are immersed in a rich literacy environment. Throughout the year children develop attention and listening skills, oral language and phonological awareness.
In reception they are gradually introduced to how sounds are represented in print, through modelled and shared experiences across the curriculum and the emphasis is on acquiring the knowledge and skills needed to ‘crack the print code' as quickly as possible, so that children can read and write with increasing independence.
Just to clarify, Msz. You are NOT using knowledge of onset and rime as a reading strategy, are you? It seem clear to me that you are saying that for reading you are teaching decoding from left to right all through the word and no other 'strategy'.
The bit I have quoted is about writing, which is slightly different...though I would still say that children should be taught to identify the sounds in a word in sequence and write them, in sequence. But I say that because I am used to dealing with older children who most definitely don't use knowledge of onset & rime as a spelling strategy.
I ask you to clarify because this is the bit that thumbie doesn't seem to be able to understand; that you are not teaching any other strategies for reading.
I am very disappointed that masha hasn't commented on the spelling data I found for her earlier.
I have a copy of it and I give her notice that I will post it on every thread I find her on until I get a reply.
They are identifying the sounds in the word in sequence for writing but at the same time recognising that at, bat,cat,fat,hat.mat ... share a spelling pattern.
First we work out how to spell a word
I used at as a simple example as it is one of the JP worksheets but it could be any word. We start by segmenting it for spelling working left to right through the phonemes but then ( "fun" playing part) explore what we change to make it iinto a different word.