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High Frequency Word List Enquiry

Discussion in 'English' started by Cindywilson, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Hello,
    Would anyone happen to know if there is a high frequency word list or words that pupils should know how to spell for years 6, 7 and 8? I would appreciate any feedback! As well, can you suggest any creative ways for vocabulary development?
    Thank you.

     
  2. Hello,
    Would anyone happen to know if there is a high frequency word list or words that pupils should know how to spell for years 6, 7 and 8? I would appreciate any feedback! As well, can you suggest any creative ways for vocabulary development?
    Thank you.

     
  3. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

  4. Support for spelling does not differentiate between words with regular and irregular spellings. Letters and Sounds lists the 300 most common words, but again without differentiation. I have identified the irregular ones among those and listed them a few times on here.
    For my main analysis and my books I looked at the 6800 most common English words. The ones with spelling traps among those are all listed by phoneme on my website <font color="#800080">www.englishspellingproblems.co.uk</font>. You could certainly use those with Yr 8.
    It is probably best to make pupils aware of the main English spelling difficulties (which u can see on the Overview page which gives the numbers of irregularly spelt words for each English spelling pattern) and let them work on those by themselves. Because correct English spelling is mainly a matter of memorisation, the spelling abilities become more and more diverse as students move up through school. Masha Bell
     
  5. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Marsha have you actually read Letters & Sounds?
    http://publications.teachernet.gov.uk/eOrderingDownload/Appendices.pdf
    page 2
    <u>Decodable words</u>
    a
    an
    as
    at
    if
    in
    is
    it
    of
    off
    on
    can
    dad
    had
    back
    and
    get
    big
    him
    his
    not
    got
    up
    mum
    but
    put (north)
    will
    that
    this
    then
    them
    with
    see
    for
    now
    down
    look
    too
    went
    it's
    from
    children
    just
    help
    don't
    old
    I'm
    by
    time
    house
    about
    your
    day
    made
    came
    make
    here
    saw
    very
    put (south)

    <u>Tricky words</u>
    the
    to
    I
    no
    go
    into
    he
    she
    we
    me
    be
    was
    you
    they
    all
    are
    my
    her
    said
    have
    like
    so
    do
    some
    come
    were
    there
    little
    one
    when
    out
    what
    oh
    their
    people
    Mr
    Mrs
    looked
    called
    asked
    could

     
  6. Even the 'tricky words' aren't so very 'tricky' as most of them contain correspondences which can be found in other common words.
    For example:
    'Looked' (can't think why this has to be introduced in the past tense before past tense is taught, though) book, crook, shook, hook, brook. '
    Come', some, love, dove, above, glove, shove.
    'Was', wash, wasp, swan, wander, want.
    'Out', shout, cloud, mouse, house, loud, about, stout, ground.
    'Said' again, certain, curtain, bargain.
    Mr. & Mrs. aren't even words, just abbreviations which, by convention, are given their 'full' word in reading, same as Ltd., no., Dr. etc
    It really is time that people stopped confusing 'high frequency words' with 'difficult' words. Most of the time they are 'difficult' because they are introduced too early in what should be a structured, systematic phonics programme which would introduce these less common correspondences at a later stage. HFWs were introduced merely because it has been thought in the past that 'learning' them gives children earlier access to 'meaningful' text. What is more, publishers deliberately commissioned texts for children which contained the HFWs because they knew that this is what they were being taught. How bizarre!
     
  7. Thank you Msz! [​IMG]
     
  8. Thank you Ms. Bell! I appreciate your resource and I will share your information with my colleagues. [​IMG]
     
  9. Glad to be of help.
    The words Msz and Maizie have listed are just from the first 100 most HF ones and hopefully mastered by most pupils by the end of KS1. Supprt for spelling goes a little further but also only just scratches the surface of the hundreds of tricky words pupils have to learn later.
    The worst spellings are those that are really totally rule-less
    because they are disobey by as many words as obey the rule:
    consonant doubling (very merry) long oo (blue shoe....) and short oo (good woman would) long o (stole coal bowl).
    The spellings for the sounds of
    'air, care, bear',
    'all, fault, caught, bought' and
    'or, door, four, more, soar, awe'
    [/URL]
    Pupils are quite good at learning lists like
    air, hair, fair or dare, care, spare, rare
    but get muddled bewtween them when they come to do writing of their own.
    Masha

    <font size="3"></font>
     
  10. There are nuances to pronunciation that gives sense to many of the spellings. The problem is that RP has clobbered some of them and daft foreigners don't hear them.
     
  11. Are actually different in their formation even though they might be considered approximate homophones. In fact 'awe'and 'soar' are quite different and don't even belong in the list.
    What we write is only an approximation of what we say. The belief that removing the nuances from spelling will make it easier is a dangerous delusion.
     
  12. I have had great fun getting speakers of standard English trying to prove that there is a difference in pronunciation between 'saw', 'sore' and 'soar'.
    They simply can't do it, because there isn't. Try as they might, they sound the same.

    How are u coping with can't and isn't, Planetx?
    Or are u still outraged about them having replaced 'cannot' and 'is not'?
    U would probably prefer 'can not', while I think 'cant' would be much better.
    U and I are bound to disagree.
    Would u like to go back to 'all ways' too?
     
  13. There is always a problem when idiots play with things they don't undersand. This trivial dismemberment of the language is like trying to take control of autonomic functions.Perhaps Masha should take concious control of her breathing. What we write is only an approximation and the nuances are vital. the silent 'w', for example is not silent at all. It directs the way that we say certain words and has to remain to give a written indication of that direction.
    If you sing, foreign songs can be a problem. The written form is not enough and has to be augmented by observation of a native singer to get it right. It's not just listening, but observing formation of the words and sounds.
    When you write poetry, the same need for understanding formation is implicit.
    Almost everyone I've met who's come across Masha is left irritated with her obsession which is all the more irritating because she hasn't a clue what she is talking about but is unable to listen when people try to explain.
    You're a clueless fool Masha. The problem is not that you don't understand, but that you lack insight into your lack of understanding.
     
  14. They do not sound the same because they are not even formed in the same way. You hear with 'foreign' ears and have not the sense or even the desire to understand.
    It isn't about agreement or disagreement. You have an obsession and it has fuddled your brain.
    I wonder if you've come across regional accents?
     
  15. The physiology of 'U 'is not that of 'ewe' or 'you'. One is not a replacement for the other. Words are sound formations and predate the literate form. Actually, it would be problematic if they were all written the same way in a literate sense.

     
  16. They do not, except perhaps to you.
    'Saw' requires a very different formation of the word to the other two. 'Soar' is different too. The 'a' matters when you say it.
    You obviously cannot hear and have made stupid assumptions.
     
  17. 'who' and 'hoot'. To say the first you form a 'w' but don't sound it. For the second you don't form a 'w'. This gives a very different sound for a native speaker/listener.
    It is one of the problems of learning a second language. You approximate sounds using the outfit of techniques you have already learned from your first language. You either cannot hear the nuances or you choose to ignore them. After all, you can already make a 'hoo' noise and people forgive slight errors so you assume all 'hoo's are the same.
    It's when you look at regional accents or try to learn lieder that you realise that it isn't that simple. It's no good just listening to Fischer-Dieskau, you have to observe how he forms the words.
    Actually, 'Fischer-Dieskau', there's a whole lot of hatchet work to be done on German spelling.
     
  18. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I pronounce who and hoo the same. And while many people find masha irritating and, I think, misguided, I would have to agree with her that most people pronounce saw, sore and soar the same. The only exception I can think of are those who, like the Scots, pronounce the 'r' sound at the end of words.
    In answer to Cindywilson, I don't think your question really has an answer. There are no 'high frequency' word lists for years 6, 7 and 8 because the majority pupils should know how to spell the 300 most frequent words by then. Lists of the next most frequent words would not be particularly useful because, by that stage, no particular words are significantly more frequent than any others.
    Spelling lists for older children often seem to contain words selected fairly randomly by the spelling list compilers. I don't really see much value in this approach. By year 7, there will be a wide range of spelling ability amongst pupils and it might be more advisable to look at the sort of mistakes that pupils make in their own writing and consider ways to help them. Things to consider might be:
    Do they actually understand the meanings of the words when they use the wrong homophone?
    Do they know the correct ways to form plurals?
    Do they know how to form compound words by adding prefixes and suffixes.
    Also, looking at particular spelling patterns, including words which follow the patterns and words which don't conform to those patterns.
    In fact, anything that would make spelling seem less random that could be applied to a large number of words, rather than trying to learn every word uniquely.

     
  19. I think the idea of a 'saw fwoat' made my blood pressure saw and I sore that I had no pills for my soar head.
     
  20. Thank you Creasey,
    You have given me direction! My head teacher has given me the responsibilty to come up with spelling word lists for years 5 to 8. Instead of compiling a list, do you think that the English teachers should just teach spelling techniques within their own classes and use the words most appropriate for each spelling focus?
     

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