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Here Is How You Teach Maths!

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by JosephBloggs, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    "But incase you are interested. We have tests ever six weeks. I analyse the data and award levels. i measure percentage change, alalyse by topic area and target grade.

    Jesus - I have a 1st don't you know!"

    Clearly anyone with a modicum of mathematical ability and a little excel knowledge would be able to do this - with or without a maths degree of any class. I have to ask where you did your Maths degree. I didn't do any data analysis in mine, I can do it but my degree and class in it is irrelevant. This constant reference to your 1st is really showing up your insecurities.

    Did it occur to you that your HoD might be right about it taking time to master different teaching approaches?
     

  2. I must say that good qualifications don't make you a good teacher, but what they do show is a level of intelligence that may indicate you are less likely to be fooled by charlatans. I myself have noticed that it is often the less intelligent teachers who are more easily led astray and if they wanted to do their own thing and I mine that would be fine unfortunately they are usually if not always determined to bully others into doing it their way.


     
  3. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    That could inspire a list of qualifications from those of us who have been "lead astray" to justify our intelligence. I don't intend to do that but I would say I don't agree that it is always the less intelligent that buy into these initiatives (and as discussed previously some are not new.)
     
  4. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    This is all getting a bit repetitive. A number of posters discuss the merits of a variety of approaches to teeaching and then a few people reply along the lines of "AfL and VAK are new, therefore they are no good" Despite some very polite questioning, we never hear what is acually bad about them.

    I am definitely sceptical when it comes to new ideas. However, if I never listen to them, I will miss out on the ones that work. Therefore I adopt the following system. Perhaps JB et al could criticise it.

    1. Listen to new ideas with a healthy degree of scepticism. Try to analyse what they really are about to decide if they are worth trying. Listen to those whose judgement I respect to see what they make of it. I am lucky in having some very intelligent and helpful colleagues, and this forum is another useful source of opinions.

    2. Try the ones I that look really promising out, and see if they work. Continue to listen to others, and share my own successes and failures.

    3. Modify my teaching practices gradually to take account of what I have learned. This may mean keeping new ideas, or adapting them, or giving up on them altogether.

    Lastly, JB I am still waiting for a reasoned reply to my question (apart from the one mentioned in my first paragraph). I have been polite, so I think I deserve one. Why do you think that doing assessment in a way that aids learning is a bad thing?
     
  5. IN RESPONSE TO....

    JB - you have stated in a recent reply that you won't answer questions from people who were rude to you on this forum.

    I SAY....

    When did I say that? For instance Jnboy1 has been rude above calling me what for - when he doesn't seem to realise that me calling him GinBoy was a deliberate intelligent for of whit and not me being unable to read. Duh!

    The only posts I don't answer are the ones trying to drift us off topic from the main point (and we know who tried to exert power there, don't we - tried many times in vain!)

    IN RESPONSE TO....

    I asked for the source of your statistics. You have not yet provided details of the source of your stats.

    I SAY...

    I did answer this. My own eight classes of over 150 pupils in total. Also the speaking to other teachers and combining results obtained by them with my own - thus increasing my sample size. Observing how "new method" teachers seem to be hated by pupils who are smart and liked by pupils who are looking to leave at 16 and aim to be a dole-ite. And also - perhaps you forgot - I was at school once - I know the real on the yard thoughts of pupils and the teachers they liked and why - and respect went to the smart teachers who do things their own way and get top results for it.

     
  6. Listen oscars - if you can get top results using METHOD - then why use a variety of methods.

    It slows the top pupils down. They get B's rather than A's or A's rather than A*. They believe that getting GCSE was so complex that what is the point of A Level - they don't want to go through all that again.

    Instead - show them how easy it can be - that way more go on to degree and more may even become maths teachers - stopping the shortage.

    P.S - TO THOSE PEOPLE - I do make comments etc and if this is AFL then ok. But I don't like BUZZWORD people - they are losers!

    WHAT GRANNYSMITH SAID IS CORRECT. SPOUTING RUBBISH TO CONCENTRATE ON THEIR OWN CAREER.

    Boy - don't you watch sky news - the worse enemy talks about peace peace peace and secretely plots against you.

    Who is worse - me for being honest about my methods. Or people spouting "inclusion and teamwork" and secretely they couldn't care less about pupils - they just want their own career.

    I at least - show you here I care and want them to get good results. If yu can see that - oh dear!




     
  7. OSCARS SAID

    I would be very worried if a teacher in my department was a one trick pony and was not open to other learning and teaching styles.

    I SAY...

    Well you can worry all you want. But you cannot change what that teacher wants to do in THEIR class unless you sign a waver that they will not be held responsible for the results from their pupils.

    THERE IS THE KEY POINT.
    You can't say teachers are responsible for their resulst and then tell them the way they must teach. If they are forced into it (and I would love you to be my HOD and love to see you try to force me to change - good luck!) then it is not their responsibility if the pupils fail. It is yours.

    So - if you want all to do this new method - take off the blame if pupils fail to teachers who say they don't agree with these methods but will go along with them. Then I am okay with it.


     
  8. onelittlevictory

    Amusing name. I suppose there is a reason behind it. I could quote a list of famous people who have gone to all different universities - but I'm not going to. Your arguement is flawed. It is like you saying because Hawking went to cambridge - then oxford is ****.

    Yea - go that boat race!

    Still - you didn't seem to know why they rate maths a BA - see there is no reason and no one there even thinks to ask. It is the first question I would have for the university if I was a student. But I could whip a Oxford or Cambridge maths grad anyday.

    It has been said before that a comprehensive school kid who grows up and turns himself into a success and gets good GCSE and A Level will tend to do better than a middle class cambridge or oxford person. Why - because we were stretched - we were pushed - and we succeeded.

    I don't know how to fail!
     
  9. GRANNY SAID......

    I must say that good qualifications don't make you a good teacher, but what they do show is a level of intelligence that may indicate you are less likely to be fooled by charlatans. I myself have noticed that it is often the less intelligent teachers who are more easily led astray and if they wanted to do their own thing and I mine that would be fine unfortunately they are usually if not always determined to bully others into doing it their way.

    I SAY..

    Agreed. I mean - who are school bullies. They are the no hope kids who leave at 16. The ones at the bottom of the chain. So lesser degree people are the ones at the bottom of the academic chain. So when they come to work with the people with Distinctions in Masters degrees they try the bully techniques but more subtile ones.

    You are right. The more intelligent are less likely to be swayed. The lower down ones feel the need to push people to do things their way - to feel special - because - well lets face it - they're not!
     
  10. Piranha said....

    Why do you think that doing assessment in a way that aids learning is a bad thing?

    I REPLY.

    It wastes so much friggin time in the classroom. Hold up your boards - rub them off - where is the work and methods in their books from the lesson for their revision - duh! If you write on a whiteboard it looks good for the cameras - it is active teaching - blah blah blah.

    Method - work in book - notes for revision - exercises attempted = TOP GRADES





     
  11. Hello all, I have sneaked on here from the Primary Forum. I'm a primary teacher teaching year 6, I'm a Lead Maths Teacher in the County, I have a second class degree, I'm part of the Senior Management Team, I am also part of a team promoting Assessment for Learning in other schools.

    There, got that out the way.

    When I started reading this thread, my mouth opened in shock. Then I became scared, very scared. Perhaps if there's one individual out there who has so little knowledge of how children learn, maybe there are others. I sincerely hope that the children in my care never go on to be taught by you JB. You are the sort of teacher that I hoped had drifted off with the Ark. Then I became reasurred by all the replies, the chances are that the children who I am teaching next year will be taught by someone who does care about whether they are learning and enjoying maths.

    JB, AfL and teaching in the 3 different learning styles (VAK) is the basis of good teaching and above all children's learning. Good and outstanding teachers move up from this basic point. From reading your rants, I don't think you understand either of these concepts. You have come into this profession unwilling to listen to the wealth of experience around you and are convinced that you know best. A word of advice: if you don't/can't listen to others and take on board what they are saying, get out of teaching and go into industry.

    I sincerely doubt whether you'll take my advice because I only have a second class degree, I'm part of the SMT and worse than all that, I'm a primary school teacher, but I hope you do.
     
  12. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Thanks, JB. You've now made it clear that you have a higly distorted view of AfL. To dismiss it as writing on whiteboards is wrong. I can be comments in their books along the lines of "Lucy, you are getting your multiplaction and addition methods for fractions confused. For addition you ..." Or asking them to think about the work they have just had returned, and write a sentence or two on what they now think they can or can't do in that topic (very useful when it comes to revision). Using AfL intelligently means picking the methods that you find appropriate for your teaching style. 'Method - work in book - notes for revision - exercises attempted = TOP GRADES' - you will find all of these in my students books. But, my students' results improved as I refined my AfL techniques.

    By the way, you complain about other people being rude and then punctuate your posts with 'duh'. I am not stupid. I have excellent mathematical qualifications, have represented my University and my county at chess and had a successful career in Investment Banking to prove it. Neither are other users of this forum stupid. Therefore, if you want people to be polite to you, try showing some respect for them.
     
  13. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    "Still - you didn't seem to know why they rate maths a BA - see there is no reason and no one there even thinks to ask. It is the first question I would have for the university if I was a student. But I could whip a Oxford or Cambridge maths grad anyday.

    It has been said before that a comprehensive school kid who grows up and turns himself into a success and gets good GCSE and A Level will tend to do better than a middle class cambridge or oxford person. Why - because we were stretched - we were pushed - and we succeeded."

    All the degrees Cambridge gives are BAs. I don't know the reason in detail but it is historical. I did ask but didn't feel it mattered as the list of qualifications after my name was never going to define me.

    As for comprehensive kids who turn into a success, 50% of the students at Oxbridge are from comprehensives. I would argue that these students have succeeded. Some would probably be able to whip you (oh to be given the opportunity!)

    "I don't know how to fail!" - I would say you do know how to fail at creating a good impression and getting on with people. I rate those skills as important.
     
  14. Oh and by the way, forgot to add this bit.

    You brag about teaching year 7 Pythagoras' Theorem. Pythagoras is not a difficult theorem to understand, in fact I have taught Pythagoras Theorem to 9 year old children, only because it fitted in with the objective. They are able to understand the concept and reproduce it. It proves nothing.
     
  15. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Thinking about my previous post and your reply, I asked "Why do you think that doing assessment in a way that aids learning is a bad thing?" and you gave me an answer about whiteboards. What is the connection, please? As for wasting time in the classroom, it needn't really take much time. It does make marking take longer, but that is my loss, not the students'.

    As for your comments on universities which give (or gave) BAs, that is for historical reasons. Most people choose a university based on the course, the campus etc. You are the first I've heard of to worry about the letters! As for whipping anybody from Oxford or Cambridge, perhaps you could tell us your achievement which 'whips' Andrew Wiles' proof of Fermat's last theorem. Or, indeed, any piece of research from an Oxford or Cambridge graduate.
     
  16. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    "Observing how "new method" teachers seem to be hated by pupils who are smart and liked by pupils who are looking to leave at 16 and aim to be a dole-ite."

    I am not going to bother to refute this drivel but just wanted to make the point that, where I teach, there is a large continuum of kids between the smart ones and the aspirational dole-ites. What about them or are they beneath your notice? It seems silly to adopt an approach that in my school would be most effective for only a third of the kids.
     
  17. JB:
    Are you really hoping to do a PhD someday? It sounds as though you are more interested in having the qualification than any learning that it might provoke.
    May I suggest that if you are thinking of going down this road that you start to broaden your thinking: think more from different perspectives and less in terms of absolutes and unsubstantiated claims. Just one example (of many):
    WHAT GRANNYSMITH SAID IS CORRECT.
    This is panto stuff, 'oh yes he did'. You have done little if anything to impress any of us. Your arguments are weak, poorly articulated, unsupported and lack any critical analysis. It doesn't augur well for a literature review does it? It says even less about the value of a first which seems ever so important to you, but be in no doubt that you are the only person on this forum impressed by this.

    Finally, you haven't answered any of my questions about how you actually ensure that the pupils you teach understand the teaching that you transmit.
     


  18. I know lots of Primary teachers and they are the worst for spouting this nonsense, this may or may not be linked to fact that I found most of them not to be bright (isn't the average A level result for Primary teachers something like 2 D's at A level?).

    You're part of a team promoting Assessment for learning, translation, part of group who go round bullying others into doing what we say, its all a load of rubbish, we all know its a load of rubbish, but by God it looks good on my CV when I go for my next post.

    Now to justify my comments here are my results for the past 6 years.

    4 Higher groups, 86 pupils, 77 A stars, 9 A's

    2 Intermediate groups, 17 pupils, 12 B's, 5 C's


     
  19. DM

    DM New commenter

    Granny,

    4 Higher groups, 86 pupils, 77 A stars, 9 A's

    2 Intermediate groups, 17 pupils, 12 B's, 5 C's

    That doesn't sound too difficult to achieve given your class sizes. Our Higher Sets have up to 35 students and Intermediate up to 33!

    DM
     
  20. Granny Smythe

    Yes of course all primary teachers are the inferior members of the teaching profession. I bow down to your superiority.

    Yes of course I'm only delivering AfL so that it looks good on my CV, how astute you are. I also bully other teachers into delivering AfL and of course they bow down to my superior knowledge and immediately start delivering their lessons with AfL in mind.

     

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