By the way, once again you refer to my 'commitment to the exclusivity of phonics' which is very misleading. I am certainly totally committed to teachers being trained well in the knowledge of the alphabetic code and its roles for reading, spelling and involved with handwriting and how best to teach learners of all ages as required. I have gone to some lengths, over the years, to describe that phonics IS only one aspect of language and literacy teaching - but, once again, this seems to fall on those deaf ears. Having said that, you will not be privy to the comments fed back to me about teachers' surprise at the development of their children's vocabulary and spoken language through the use of their phonics programmes! There is a wealth of language and a wealth of very happy teaching and learning experiences within the phonics teaching. Many teachers, internationally - not just in England - are passionate about their phonics teaching. They feel themselves being effective teachers and their pupils can feel themselves learning daily. These deep discussions on the TES forum don't even begin to reflect the positivity and excitement about teaching and learning that the field of phonics - teaching basic skills - evokes. The ONLY reason that I choose to enter into these threads now and again is to try and address the doom and gloom of masha about the complex spelling code, the detraction of thumbie when she feels that phonics is getting too much hype - and, usually, I don't even get into conversation with you, Eddie, because you bang on about witches and evil on occasions which, to me, is too much!