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Help! Trying - and failing - to find out new salary!

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by tedhat, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    I need advise. As of Sept., I am going up to UPS1 plus getting a TR for promotion to Head of KS2. This latter role I applied for in the midst of writing moderation in May. The advert was up on the staff room wall for two days but, as I was utterly swamped with work due to the moderation, I didn't actually ever see it. The Head then reminded me, by email that Friday, to send an electronic application in, which I did, and i was told the position was mine (it was a bit of a foregone conclusion as a result of a colleague leaving and of no surprise to anyone,so was more a case of ticking the admin boxes).

    At the very start of the summer holidays, I emailed the Head and the School Business manager (SBM) to ask what my salary would be as of 1 Sept - I explained that I needed to know asap as we have put our house on the market with a view to moving and I needed to confirm details with our mortgage provider. That was 4 weeks ago. Since then, despite other emails from the Head, I have had no reply. The SBM has replied saying it is absolutely nothing to do with her. I rang County who have said they must have details by 3 September in order to ensure salaries are correctly paid in the Sept pay run. I am irritated on two counts. Firstly, not knowing what i should be receiving as of 1 Sept which means I can't let our mortgage co know and can't necessarily maximise our borrowings (which is what we wanted to do). Secondly, being expected to wait probably several months whilst the Head and the SBM sort out paper work - last year, the same thing happened and they did not submit the required spreadsheet to County on time - we all had to wait until November and December to get back dated pay! I have told them that, this year, I do expect to receive the salary I am earning (and, like so many of us, I feel I give absolutely everything to this job adn deserve every single penny) from September - County have advised me that they 'could' make an adjustment in Sept which would result in a £50 charge to the school - I would pursue this if necessary. I just find it so incredibly frustrating that, despite doing everything I can for the school , I they don't seem to value me (or my colleagues) enough to tell us what our salary will be nor to ensure that it is paid on time.
    Should I write a more annoyed-sounding email to them both? Should I try to involve the governors (and, funny this, I am expected to become a governor as of ! Sept too)? Should I effectively work to rule and only do the basics of my job and none of the 'free' add-ons until things are resolved? (Not sure I could cope with the stress of that though!). Should I apply for an Assistant Headship role going in another school in our locality Should I respond to the approaches from a Secondary Head who wants to set up a Secondary/Primary transition team? I don't want to respond emotionally and maybe regret things down the line but I feel so irritated and cross by what i view as very shoddy treatment. What drives me mad is that it has been a tough year at school, with Ofsted, new SATS (I am the year 6 teacher), writing moderation for Year 6 and yet, despite all that, we got, BY FAR, the highest results in our locality so it wouldn't be ideal for the school if I left right now, I just find it hard to sense any sort of appreciation, however, if they can't even tell me what my salary will be, let alone ensure it actually gets paid. I know of no other professions where the payment of staff salaries is viewed as so low down the list. Years ago, I used to work in a completely different industry. There, if the engineers didn't get paid correctly or on time, they would simply have walked out resulting in total loss of revenue for the company. It just would never have happened.

    Please - let me know what you would do. I would really appreciate advise.
  2. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    A long post, and I will be honest, I have skim read it a bit!

    I think there is two parts of this. Good news and bad.

    1) the TLR bit. It is my reading that you are doing a new job for which you get a TLR. I would expect that if this starts on 31st august, your pay packet in sept should include the TLR. It is a job that has been ratified by governors i assume, and I see no reason to withhold payment on this. I would follow this up. Have you any confirmation that this will start in Sept and what the value of the position is.

    2) the UPS thing. Bad news. This needs ratification now by governors. It is fair enough that this may not take place until December. You can't expect to get this in September. Actually it is very rare for this to happen nowadays. I see nothing you can do, or be justified in doing on this one. Thing is the fact you desire to put your house on the market is not really important in the grand scheme of things. Also, in the current climate i would be cautious of 'maximising borrowings'
    pepper5 likes this.
  3. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    Thanks for your quick response (yes, sorry - original post was v long - was trying to ensure I covered everything and I do tend to go on a bit!!). My understanding is that both the TLR and the UPS1 promotion have already been ratified by the governors but that the possible delays are due to the Head/SBM not then submitting the 'spreadsheet' on time to County. However, even if I park the issue of not actually receiving the pay rise on time, I would still think I have a right to know what I am going to be earning. I have already been told it is all budgeted for, and yet no one is telling me what the gross salary will be. The TLR amount was mentioned on the advert but as I was immersed in the writing moderation during the two days the ad was up on the wall, I didn't see it and no one else (including the SBM) know what it said - it was written by the Head and no one can find a hard copy - and he isn't replying to emails!
  4. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    A basic TLR is just over 2500. Work on that basis and you may or may not get a pleasant surprise!

    Look at it from the Head's perspective-they've just employed someone who
    a) applied for a job not knowing how much they would be paid or
    b) has the memory of a sieve!
  5. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    School opens in a few days. Although I understand your frustration, it is best to try to hide your annoyance and speak to the Head when school opens. You can decide about the other matters of moving jobs later. You need to concentrate now on getting back to school and being fresh to meet your new job and classes. You will eventually get your money and get it resolved.

    Just to echo what DYNAMO67 said about being cautious about borrowing money in this current climate, In would agree. Ensure you have an emergency fund of savings to fall back on if the worst happens. Try tonsave at least 10% of your pay each month. Try not to take on any credit card debt.

    Once you have a healthy emergency fund, no credit card debt and a healthy savings account, then think about borrowing more.
  6. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    They have ratified everyone's pay already? That is efficient! Are you sure on this? There was a post recently on this, most schools backdate and ratify at some point in the first term, sorry.

    Didn't the advert state the tlr? Surely they can answer this for you, them simply add it to the salary from this month.

    Don't want to be all nanny state here, but if you are relying on the two grand a year ups payment at a time of such low interest rates I would hazard a guess you would not meet the stress test required for a mortgage anyway.
  7. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    Memory of a sieve? Me? Seriously? not entirely sure I understand that comment - I haven't forgotten anything at all - I was never told!! It was an expected thing for me to apply - the previous most senior KS2 teacher was leaving, I had been asked if I would take on the role (I didn't ask about salary as knew it would only be a small increase plus also felt it wasn't the right time to ask - I was expected to apply for my own career prospects).
  8. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Just ask politely for written confirmation (or make a phone call) of what your salary will be, even if they cannot pay it on time for whatever reason. That should be very easy for a Head to do

    Backdating pay is becoming the norm. Smart schools would start the process earlier and pay you on time as it is very good for morale,.
    tedhat likes this.
  9. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    I didn't say they had ratified EVERYONE's pay, Dynamo - I said I have been told that they have ratified mine. This is what I had heard. As I have already said, I didn't get to see the advert as it was only up for two days and those two days were whilst i was immersed in writing moderation. Only the Head has a copy - the SBM doesn't have one and can't get the details and the Head isn't replying.

    Jeez - Dynamo, I was only asking for advice. I don't need any advice on managing finances and stress, thanks - I have had a mortgage for many years. I merely wanted to know whether I had any rights to find out what my salary would be from 1 Sept so that I could provide my mortgage company with the up to date salary details that they have asked for! They find it hard to believe that I can't tell them my gross salary from 1 Sept.
  10. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    Thanks. I agree - it's a shame its becoming the norm - it shouldn't be but maybe some Heads aren't the best at organising themselves! I have already sent a very polite request but sadly it has fallen on deaf ears.
  11. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Ignoring emails about pay and contracts is a red line for me. We all go to work for remuneration. Being paid correctly to your agreed contract and on the correct date is non-negotiable. No-one is too busy or too disorganised to do that for their staff.
    cissy3, sabrinakat and tedhat like this.
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I think you are being a bit unfair on your headteacher.

    You emailed to ask at the start of the holidays. Why the heck should they spend their holiday faffing about finding this out for you? Had you asked just after half term and then not had a reply for four weeks I'd be a little sympathetic, but given you waited until the holidays, I'm afraid not.

    Wait until term starts and then find out, the paperwork is probably locked in a filing cabinet in the school somewhere.

    Imagine a thread where a head complained that a member of staff hadn't answered emails during the summer holiday?! We'd all be up in arms at the cheek of it and supporting the teacher in not answering. Headteachers deserve a holiday just as much.
  13. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Except that the OP didn't even ask until the summer holidays. There is no requirement on anyone, even headteachers, to answer emails in the holidays.
  14. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    You shouldn't have to ask.

    It should have been done already as part of the process.
    cissy3 and tedhat like this.
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    And very possibly the TLR point/salary was on the advert. The OP has said they were very busy and didn't take much notice of it.

    They know the UPS1 part of their salary, it is around on the net.
    The TLR was probably on the advert the OP didn't read.
    And the OP didn't ask when offered the post.
    And the OP spent all of the last half term not finding out.

    Then the OP has the cheek to be so miffed that the head hasn't gone into school in the holidays, fished out the paperwork, contacted the LA to double check, and emailed back, that they are thinking of applying elsewhere.

    I'm sorry expecting any teacher (at whatever level) to work in the holidays is totally unacceptable.
    (Yes many of us do, but to be annoyed that someone hasn't is out of order.)
    Laphroig likes this.
  16. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I haven't said I expect anyone to work at any time.

    When the position was offered and accepted, written confirmation should follow. It's the grown up way. And avoids problems. Schools are very poor at it.
    cissy3 and sabrinakat like this.
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    The OP clearly expects it of his head. Apologies if my post implied you had said this, wasn't intentional.
    Agreed, and teachers are very poor at insisting on it! :rolleyes:
  18. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Surely the level of TLR will be in the school's staffing structure?
    wanet likes this.
  19. Jesmond12

    Jesmond12 Star commenter

    It will be in the school's pay policy, which is a statutory policy, and I would assume that details of the pay scales are there as well. I know that ours are.

    On another point I have not read any emails to do with work since the start of the holidays, nor do I intend to do so until I return on 1st September.
  20. tedhat

    tedhat Occasional commenter

    I agree completely with you - I worked in a completely different propfession before teaching. I think we as teachers are mugs in that we allow pay to be back dated. At the very least, we should ask for interest, Others do this, why don't we. However, ultimately, Heads/bursars simply need to get themselves organised in such a way as to ensure all info has gone to the LEA in time. Our school is small, there are only 8 teachers. It really isn't an especially difficult task. It sends a clear message to staff that, actually, they couldn't really give a toss about staff morale.

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