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HELP!!!! letters and sounds in year 2

Discussion in 'Primary' started by mmism, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. I am an NQT with a year 2 class. I need help getting my head round how I am supposed to teach all the phases that are need to meet the needs of all of the children in my class. The only problem is, although I have a HLTA-her timetable is full to capacity, therefore I have to teach as a whole class. I am trying but how can this work . Any ideas or help would be gratefully received. I feel like I am going round in circles but getting nowhere. Also with the support for spellings document -this presumes that children have completed phase 5 already. I have children ranging from basic phase 1 to the other extreme of children being confident within phase 5. I am very confused.
     
  2. I am an NQT with a year 2 class. I need help getting my head round how I am supposed to teach all the phases that are need to meet the needs of all of the children in my class. The only problem is, although I have a HLTA-her timetable is full to capacity, therefore I have to teach as a whole class. I am trying but how can this work . Any ideas or help would be gratefully received. I feel like I am going round in circles but getting nowhere. Also with the support for spellings document -this presumes that children have completed phase 5 already. I have children ranging from basic phase 1 to the other extreme of children being confident within phase 5. I am very confused.
     
  3. Ignore that one until u have found your feet. It's pathetic anyway.
    Most classes are like that.
    Your children will have done basic phonics for a year and that's how long anyone needs to spend on it. After that, it's all about helping them cope with the inconsistencies of English spelling, for writing especially (blue shoe flew through), but for reading also still quite a bit
    (paid - said, our - your, do - go). I've set out the lot at <font color="#f37255">www.englishspellingproblems.co.uk</font> - Visiting the site will at least help u understand why u are confused.
    Concentrate on teaching English and don't let worries about phonics tie u in knots. Beyond R and Y1 phonics is of very little use.
     
  4. mashabell said:
    "Beyond R and Y1 phonics is of very little use."
    This is not true.
    chellestudent - spend some time choosing an Alphabetic Code Overview Chart (free) from unit 1 of www.phonicsinternational.com (no registration required).
    Then, if you want some advice on how to manage to teach the variety of children in your class, please email me at debbie@phonicsinternational.com .
     
  5. I will try and paste in my latest summary of the English spelling system.
    If it turns out a mess (pasting can do strange things on here), and u would like it sent by email, email me mashabell@aol.com
    The English spelling systemdoable fatal single ordinary flatten presence present other cide invite
    However, 78 of the 89 basic English spelling rules get broken in 222 different ways. Consonant doubling alone makes the spellings of nearly 1000 words unpredictable. In all, at least 3695 common English words contain some spelling uncertainty. Below u can see the main patterns and one example of each of the different ways they get broken. Some, e.g. 'a', have very few exceptions. Others (ee, oo, o-e) have hundreds. (The 11 patterns shown in green have no exceptions.)
    ed at/ cot/ cut - character, kangaroo, queue
    clarden - ghastly guard ouse &ndash; who
    ium - dumb autumn ose - gnome knot mnemonic gone
    food - rude shrewd fruit truth move group tomb manoeuvre blue do shoe through d would put woman courier
    orap, pet - pterodactyl two debt delicate - democrat
    thon measure - azure
    Schwa dulge - endure 23 Consonant doubling merry (regular &ndash; 372) very (missing -384) serrated (surplus &ndash; 158)

    The even bigger problem for young learners is that 63 of the alternative spellings spell more than one sound (great treat threat), but I'd better save that for another day.


     
  6. As I feared, the tes system did get rid of most my spaces and colours.
    Perhaps u can make sense of the list anyway when u paste it and save in Word?
    If u want the original, email me: mashabell@aol.com
     
  7. Phonics and spelling IS important in Year 2.
    My kids range from learning their single letter sounds (Phase 2) to working on the spelling rules from Phase 5/6.
    I have 5 spelling/reading/phonics groups based on their phonics phases
    Gp 1 Phase 5/6
    Gp 2 Phase 4/5
    Gp 3 Phase 3b/early Phase 4
    Gp 4 early Phase 3
    Gp 5 late Phase 2/early Phase 3
    SEN group - basic single letter sounds/CVC words
    First 20 minutes of the day myself and the TA work with a group. The other 3 main groups work independently on handwriting (words they are working on in L&S) or some other phonics/reading-related activity.
    SEN group work with a Welfare Assistant on IEP targets related to reading/writing.
    2 adults x 5 groups = 2 guided sessions per week + 3 independent sessions linked to guided work.
    (5 guided sessions for SEN group)
    We use the KS1 and KS2 spelling resource files from www.topicalresources.co.uk to help us assess levels of phonics for WRITING (often different from ability to READ phonics) - the diagnostic test is very simple.
    C x
     
  8. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Ignore the bliddy phases and assess what children actually know and review all sounds daily and teach new skills to the whole class!
     
  9. Thank you all. I'm sure I will get there in the end as you can see from the time I am still working on this. I am taking bits of advice from all of you so that I can give the best opportunities for ALL of the children in my class.I will email thanks but a bit tired need to go to bed now
    Thanks again all your help is valuable
     
  10. chellestudent - I am appalled at what has happened to your plea for help.
    mashabell follows the threads re spelling to say how dreadful the English spelling system is and then provides her many examples to prove her point.
    If I was in your shoes right now, I would be totally overwhelmed as your original posting indicates.
    Contrary to how it may seem when I flag up my free Alphabetic Code Overview Charts to help in ORGANISING and UNDERSTANDING our English spelling system (that is, that I'm gaining publicity - which I am sure is the case - but for the right reasons), I am part of a group of people called the UK Reading Reform Foundation who has lobbied the government to get changes to the teaching of reading and spelling - and, hopefully, changes to the teacher-training.
    We still have a scenario, however, where despite a fundamental change in government guidanc away from the searchlights (multi-cueing) reading strategies towards synthetic phonics teaching, teachers are generally not trained or not well-enough trained - and there are very few really good, systematic programmes in schools.
    Letters and Sounds provides a clear message about the teaching principles, but provides no resources and, if evaluated and compared, would not necessarily be the programme of choice for schools if it wasn't the government programme and if schools weren't often 'told' to use it by local authority advisors. In any event, it is levelled at infants and yet key stage 2 and 3 teachers are also being guided towards it.
    I am so upset for you being swamped by different points and I would like to be of practical help.
    Please do email me and you can have my programme if, having reviewed it, you think it will be helpful to support you in your teaching - rather than leaving you feeling out of your depth and that the English spelling system is impossible to teach!
    The people who wrote Letters and Sounds (the phonics element from Phase 2) are not practising infant teachers - or primary teachers. That's part of the problem.
    As far as I'm aware, mashabell isn't either.
    I am - and I've come to my passion to support other teachers from working in a primary schools including schools deemed to be failing, and I've produced a programme to come up with a solution - not to highlight the problem!
    debbie@phonicsinternational.com
     

  11. I try to do this as much as u do. But when Y2 teachers find that some of their pupils have mastered basics phonics very well, while some are still hopelessly lost, despite good teaching in R and Y1, I try to help them understand how the inconsistencies of English spelling lead to huge variations in pupils' progress. U prefer to put all the blame on
    Chris Jolly told me that 60% of schools were already using Jollyphonics three years ago. There are several other courses in use too. Since the Rose Review and the publication of L&S the uptake has become virtually 100%. Not all teachers have your teaching ability, but they are really trying their best.
    The reason why quite a few pupils continue to have trouble learning to read and write is that they
    1) are not bright enough or
    2) have too poor a memory and/or
    3) are not well-enough suported at home
    to cope with the inconsistencies of English spelling, such as 'an, any, apron - late, straight, eight' or 'ear, heard, heart - near, here - there, were, her' and the hundreds of others like them.
    Rather than blaming hard-working teachers for the persistently high proportions of pupils who struggle to read and write - in all English-speaking countries - I try to make teachers aware of the root cause of the problem.
    But aslo, just like u, I too have devised materials for helping pupils to cope better, with my books 'Learning to Read' and 'Rules and Exceptions of English Spelling', just as you have with your Phonics International.
    Masha Bell

     
  12. You are so good at opening your mouth and popping your foot straight into it, aren't you masha?! What dismissive and patronising assertions yours are.
    Not one of those 'reasons' is at all valid; given good, systematic structured phonics teaching just about any child can learn the basic skills of decoding and blending for reading and segmenting for spelling. There are hundreds of teachers who can vouch for this. The successful acquisition of these skills are not dependent on any of your 'conditions'.
    I find your views quite depressing and am thankful that you have nothing to do with teaching children to read as it appears that you would write off a large number of them as hopeless cases before you even started.
     
  13. This is not the place for a debate about the english language, nor the place to advertise your sodding phonics resources.
    You dont need anything more than the letters and sounds book, and a bit of common sense (********** helps too!)
    If you are forced to teach whole class, you will have to take the average ability and teach to that. You can stretch your other children through focus work, and it wont hurt them to revisit previous learning anyway. Your less able who are still struggling with basic sounds should be really be having some form of intervention.
    We follow a structure as follows:
    Revisit (Flashcards of keywords and previous phoneme words - i see how many the children can do in 1 minute and try to beat it the next day)
    Teach them how to form a phoneme.
    Practice writing the phoneme- so if we were doing 'ee' i would skywrite it with my finger, write it on the Interactive whiteboard, or write it on somebodys back with our fingers - make it active.
    Teach them how to write/read a word with that phoneme. I "pull the word out of my pocket, put it in my mouth, chew it up and pull out each sound" and the children know the routine. I tell them it is MY turn and it will be theirs after so they listen. I demonstrate writing a word by firstly thinking how many sounds there are and drawing boxes, then pull each sound out individually (m-ee-t) writing it down.
    I then give them a word to do on their board. Dont give them too long, do 3-2-1- show me, then give them another word.
    Application is usually reading or writing a sentence.
     
  14. Oh i forgot to say - for a Y2 class i would probably start with Phase 5 (long vowel phonemes - the 'ai' family -ay/ai/a_e/ae and the other 'families')
    Interlink Phase 4 by including consonant clusters (sp,st, bl, gr, etc..alot of children still struggle with this) for your lower children and Phase 6 by including alternative pronounciations and endings of words, -ing, -ed etc for your highers. But still use thelong vowel phonemes as the major part of your teaching.
    So for 'ee' you could do 'meet' for your lowbys, 'greet' for your middles, and 'bleeding' for your highers.
    "Red group, write meet...blue and green group write greet...yellow group write bleeding.." etc.
     
  15. I never blame the teachers at all - in fact I have helped to identify that they are not trained, or not trained well enough, either in their initial teacher-training courses nor for INSET - and that our government has given flawed guidance through the National Literacy Strategy - which has now had to be addressed with updated synthetic phonics guidance.
    I may well point to the need for the teach- ING to be improved through improved knowledge about the alphabetic code and the synthetic phonics teaching principles, fighting the corner for teachers to give more time to basic skills teaching on the timetable (20 minutes per day as advised in Letters and Sounds is insufficient).
    Also, I feel quite distraught for the teachers. Many are very pleased with Letters and Sounds - and it does not seem to have occurred to them that they have been provided with a programme with absolutely no resources!
    If that same programme was not from the government and was properly evaluated and compared with alternatives, it would be interesting to see who might follow something else!
    mashabell- I am very sure you mean well - but picking out a series of words with various spelling alternatives and pronunciation alternatives to prove your point does nothing really to support teachers.
    When, in contrast, one starts grouping common words with the same spelling patterns and pronunciation patterns, then the teaching and learning can become organised and memorable.
    So what teachers need are very clear, systematic and well-organised programmes with ample material - and not ad hoc words and doom and gloom.
     
  16. As the poster above u said, L&S and a bit of common sense is resources enough. And as I pointed out last time, u'd be really pushed now to find a school that does not yet have acceptable phonics resources of some kind.
    I hope it helps them to understand why synthetic phonics is failing to be the magic cure for all our literacy ills - as its lobyists claim. I hope it helps to give them a more rational view of English literacy teaching.
    But in real books or in what children want to write words aren't organised like that. That's why Rose recommended the systematic teaching of phonics only for R and Y1.
     
  17. "But in real books or in what children want to write words aren't organised like that. That's why Rose recommended the systematic teaching of phonics only for R and Y1."

    Rose isn't an infant or primary teacher currently trying to raise standards.
    It is precisely because so-called 'real books' and what children want to write aren't organised with neat letter groups etc. that teachers need systematic, rigorous teaching approaches and programmes to teach ALL the children really well.
    If many children haven't got to grips with what is a complicated spelling system, as you point out, by the end of Year 1, are you saying they are then doomed to muddle along and struggle for the rest of their lives - with their job application forms ending up in the bin because they are not apparently 'literate' or they look for labels such as ''dyslexic'?
    Children are teachable for reading and spelling - but the method, programmes, rigour, good resources and whole school approach REALLY matter.
    You have given up on them by the end of Year 1 - and you are giving up on our existing spelling system in the hope that it is going to be 'changed' to a simpler one.
    I am working very hard to promote the need for teachers and parents to have very, very good support, training, knowledge and so on.
    I'm sorry to say there will be many teachers paying lip-service to phonics teaching, or following Letters and Sounds - who are not the rigorous synthetic phonics teachers they need to be.
    Even looking at the balance of 'time allocated' is very telling indeed. 20 minutes per day to teach the vast majority of children to read well, spell well, write their letters well and to construct writing well - is grossly insufficient - and yet teachers are being told this is adequate and need only last in the infants - absolute rubbish.
    Year 2 teachers are made nationally to assess their children on genre writing when many of them have barely got the rudiments of spelling and sentence construction. Why is this a national test before spelling and word-reading?
    It depends on your world-view of teaching basic literacy - and I'm concerned on a number of fronts.
    Whilst, Masha, you are entirely well-meaning, I don't think we have the same definition and understanding of what we mean by phonics teaching - my variety moves seamlessly from teaching reading and spelling - to a spelling programme - but time is needed - and support for teachers and from senior management and from government.
    The government has promoted Reading Recovery for its weakest schools and pupils - and I know this to be an approach that does no favours to those weakest children.
    So, you can go banging on about our terrible spelling system and point out how hard it is, and I can go on and say, "Precisely, which is why we need more time, training, better programmes, more rigour...." and so on - to address the problem - to bring the solution not the problem!
     
  18. "I hope it helps them to understand why synthetic phonics is failing to be the magic cure for all our literacy ills - as its lobyists claim. I hope it helps to give them a more rational view of English literacy teaching."

    I absolutely dispute that all schools are now doing rigorous synthetic phonics programmes which include continuation into key stage 2, or that they are doing synthetic phonics programmes to address special needs.
    In the scale of things, our government has really only 'just' brought in legislation to promote synthetic phonics teaching and it has still promoted the opposite whole language approach, Reading Recovery, for the weakest children.
    The Science and Technology select committee are currently grilling the government on the lack of evidence for promoting Reading Recovery and you can read about this via the UK Reading Reform Foundation message forum at www.rrf.org.uk .
    In other words, there has not at all been a test of whether synthetic phonics teaching is the most effective method of teaching reading and spelling as the lobbyists (myself included) and the researchers claim!
    I think it is actually appalling that people are already bad-mouting synthetic phonics promotion when they have no real idea of the take-up or quality of the teaching in our primary schools. It shows no rational analysis of the reality at all.
     
  19. I really dont get the argument with synthetic phonics v's other approaches to reading.
    Surely the whole bloody point is that you need to learn reading through a variety of approaches, and make use of a whole range of skills to enable you to decode a word?
    Having an awareness of phonics and how sounds work enables you to decode an unknown word. This is useful in a multitude of situations - not least when learning new vocabulary.
    Reading stories for meaning requires comprehension of the text as a whole, making sensible guesses and judgements about what unknown words might be, using grammatical clues, etc. But if you dont have any phonic knowledge, you cannot check whether this contextual guess is correct.
    Children need them both. Phonics is taught discretely and generally at word and sentence level to give children the skills to decode.
    Comprehension and grammatical understanding is taught at text level through everyday lessons and guided reading sessions.
    I dont get the argument because surely you cannot just learn one approach and not the other? Surely both are useful tools to use in conjunction in order to decode text?
     

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