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Discussion in 'Leadership' started by fundisi, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. fundisi

    fundisi New commenter

    Fellow educators - I instigated a formal grievance against my HOD however she asked for more time to respond and I left the school before it was resolved. My HOD then left the school and took up a new post as a HOD at an independent school. Would she have had to declare that someone had filed a formal grievance against her? What if she did not mention it at interview? Was she supposed to? Only asking as she shafted me and I'd like to return the favour.
  2. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Hmm. That's an interesting one.

    Whether she declared or not is info you might find hard to get, so why not proceed on the basis that she didn't? - which I think is most likely.

    And better an informal route in my view - there are ways of getting information very quietly to people. And the more that get to know the better...
  3. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    No, she would not have to declare any such thing. Of course not. The grievance could have ended in her favour.
    Of course she'd not mention any such thing at interview.
    And no, she was not supposed to.
    Why? What would you gain by doing so?
    Why are you following her career moves at all? You moved on to a new school, why on earth have you taken any notice of her moves?

    Leave it alone and do the right thing.
  4. fundisi

    fundisi New commenter

    Do the right thing? Mine was not the first grievance against her and I suffered months of stress and depression at her hands. In the end it all got too much, I blew up in class and was dismissed. Since then both the HM and HOD have moved on. However I have not been able to and wont be able to until my case comes up at the Employment Tribunal next year.
  5. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    It's disciplinary matters, particularly those involving safeguarding, that are asked about and which the previous head, if asked about, must disclosed in a reference.

    I have never seen a job application form that asked someone to disclose if a grievance had ever been brought against them.

    So short answer to your question is No. Your ex-HoD did not have to disclose a grievance.

    And in any case a grievance is not legally a finding of misconduct or wrongful behaviour even if the grievance hearing had reached a formal decision. But in this case no grievance hearing took place anyway so there was no finding about whether your grievance was justified.
    Pomza, TheoGriff, Aquasheriff and 2 others like this.
  6. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Grievances should be confidential, so you should not be aware of this.
    Your other posts show that this issue with the HOD and putting the grievance together happened in 2018, you need to move on.

    No idea what the tribunal next year is to do with, but a grievance that never reached a hearing three years previously can't be it.

    I still think chasing after someone you haven't seen or worked with for two years is a waste of your mental energy.
    Pomza and TheoGriff like this.
  7. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    I agree with @caterpillartobutterfly that you need to find a way of moving on at some point, but I also see your point that if this cow really did you down she should not be allowed to simply move on as if nothing had happened and get away with it, if only for the reason that she might do it again - and again - to others.

    Forgiveness is noble, and can be cathartic, but it also goes against the grain for people to get away with wrongdoing.
  8. Professor Dumbledore

    Professor Dumbledore New commenter

    "This cow" I find uncalled for and unprofessional, to be honest. With no disrespect intended toward the OP, we are only hearing one side of the story here.
  9. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Please don’t.

    Apart from any moral grounds for not doing this, you could be making yourself liable for proceedings against you for slander, @fundisi .
  10. averagedan

    averagedan Occasional commenter

    This sounds more like vengeance than justice. It's not up to you to decide someone is guilty and be judge, jury and executioner. At the end of the day there's been no hearing, etc., your clearly emotionally involved hence why outside judgement is needed.

    Grudges always reflect badly on the holder not the recipient in my experience. It's carp, I know, but there it is.
  11. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Not if it's true. The defence of truth against both slander and libel is sound.
  12. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Of course it is, if what they did was done to you!

    This strange idea that some people seem to have that you should simply let people get away with doing you down is unrealistic. Of course, you shouldn't eat, sleep and breathe vengeance, and as I have said before, moving on and some degree of forgiveness is cathartic, especially if the slight is minor.

    But if, as the OP implies, it isn't, then the instigator should certainly not be allowed to get clear away with it.

    Not least because this sort of antisocial or devious behaviour, if not brought to light and, ideally, punished, is likely to continue, with other victims in the future.
  13. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    As according to OP no hearings have ever taken place to determine if OP's allegations are true it would be a high risk strategy to rely on.
    TheoGriff likes this.
  14. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Well OK RW, but I was taking it for granted that the OP knew it was true, as it was him/her that was "shafted" and he/she surely knew if he/she had filed a formal procedure or not!
  15. install

    install Star commenter

    Are you sure you made it ‘formal’ as there is usually a tight deadline with these things for completion?
  16. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Just because someone believes this is true doesn't mean it is! (I'm making a general observation, not about OP's circumstances, about which none of us, of course, have any direct personal knowledge. The courts are full of people pursuing claims where they genuinely believe they are the victim but discover, expensively, that the court does not agree.)

    OP's post #1 says OP started a grievance process but it never got as far as a hearing or adjudication as the ex-HoD left before anything was concluded. So no-one in the school's management has had the opportunity to decide whether OP was or was not "shafted". That's why I said it would be high risk to make the allgation to the HoD's new school and then rely on a defence of 'Truth'.

    And as I said earlier the issue between the two was presumably not an allegation of misconduct by the HoD or it would have been dealt with under the school's disciplinary procedures. Grievance isn't about misconduct.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
    TheoGriff and Pomza like this.
  17. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    Every poster on here bemoaning their terrible mistreatment by evil HTs believes their version of events is ‘true’. Ever see a post where someone believes it’s ‘true’ that they just weren’t very good at some/all aspects of their job and that their employer took the appropriate actions...?
    averagedan and TheoGriff like this.
  18. averagedan

    averagedan Occasional commenter

    Please tell me that you're not suggesting we try everyone in the court of public opinion rather than facts and proven allegations?

    If you run around spreading hearsay and gossip without proof, as is the case here, you may very well be in breach of professional standards and potentially barred from teaching depending on the extent to which the gossip and rumour impacts the other person.
  19. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Your wish is my command. :) I'm not suggesting that we try everyone in the court of public opinion.

    I agree with that, provided that the first subordinate clause is removed.
  20. ACOYEAR8

    ACOYEAR8 Star commenter

    OP - I appreciate how you feel -after all you've posted this on TES. I've met many teachers and other professionals who have had grievances and in some cases, you can see them etched in lines on their faces. I've had a few as well but I really try to let these things go. you're most likely bigger and better than the Hod you mention. You'll only make yourself as bad as she is/was if you pursue this further and you'll end up with those VGLs (visible grievance lines).
    What goes around, comes around. It does.
    deborahlinacre likes this.

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