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Grammar Schools To Return?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dumpty, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Possibly - does seem their best chance as Greening seems to support them and May certainly does, having gone to one herself:


    These days since the vote just keep getting more and more interesting!
    emerald52 likes this.
  2. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

  3. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Could be the making of education again. Choice of grammar schools for the more academic - Latin and Greek and what have you; vocational schools for those who want to go down the skills-that-will-get-you-a-job route; general all-around bog-standard education schools like we have now.

    First, middle and high schools. General education in middle schools and then options on type of school in year 9. Or primary and secondary schools, with selection of type of school in year 7 and ability to change in year 9, all secondaries following general courses up to year 9 and then differentiate according to type of school.

    Ability in all schools to take exams early if child is ready.

    Get rid of the stupid idea that everyone has to go to university. Universities stop offering stupid degree courses (Beckham studies? The history of the horse? I ask you!)

    Oh, and the vocational training to be held in high regard.
    InkyP, wanet, ValentinoRossi and 4 others like this.
  4. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Great for the few who get into the grammar schools. Not so great for everyone else.
  5. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Most grammar schools select around 25% - I worked in one where the % was routinely 28 - so a minority, but hardly "the few".
    Dragonlady30 likes this.
  6. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    This also works in reverse - denying chances to the more academically minded children so they become clones of the crowd.
  7. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    We did this in our school but it was abandoned because, I believe, the rules were changed so that only the exams taken in Y11 counted towards the GCSE league table positions.
    delnon likes this.
  8. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    Is this the percentage of students who apply or the students in an area?
  9. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    While some campaign for the return of grammar schools, by implication we would also revert to secondary moderns and yet people don't campaign for the return of these.
    vannie, Laphroig, needabreak and 3 others like this.
  10. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter

    I wrote a post on the other thread saying more or less the same, from my own experience as a student in an excellently run comprehensive and starting my career teaching in a secondary modern school.

    The 1944 (?) Education act had much in its favour. Sadly, not all of it was activated, particularly the introduction of the technical high schools.

    You are SO right about university provision!!!
  11. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    And that is the problem. It's all about the data and the league tables. All about the school. None of it is about the children.
  12. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Well they should be - both secondary moderns and technical colleges. But a much better version of both, not seen as inferior to grammar school. It will need a sea-change in view but it can be done.
  13. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    The top 25% of the ability range (so all students, not just those who apply).
    Shedman likes this.
  14. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    I agree with @monicabilongame. The view needs to be that secondary moderns and technical colleges allow pupils to play to their strengths. Those strengths may not be academic but they should still be valued. Our current system places too much emphasis on everyone having the same skills. That isn't what a functioning society needs.
  15. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    Why not good news for everyone else? Why not have school with different skill sets as @monicabilongame suggests?
    I agree that is could be best for academic students, best for apprenticeships and best all round.
    ValentinoRossi and Dragonlady30 like this.
  16. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter


    The original system from the '44 Education act was never fully implemented, therefore never tried and evaluated.

    Kids are different, have different strengths and weaknesses, and develop at different times. This present 'one size fits all' is doing no one any good.
  17. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Indeed. I am always at loss at to why attempts to help kids from poorer backgrounds get the opportunities of a grammar school education can be so hated by the very people who say they represent better opportunities for the poorer in society.

    Surely, as is being said here, the answer is to allow those with strong academic achievement from poorer areas the chance to excel, while developing likewise 'grammar' schools in other areas of talent of the less advantaged.

    The mantra 'we are all equal' has been 'we are all equally stupid' for far too long with this one size fits all nonsense.
    BelleDuJour, Dragonlady30 and wanet like this.
  18. bonkers 704

    bonkers 704 Lead commenter

    The problem, dumpty, as you know, is that the original, laudable aim of ensuring that grammar schools genuinely select by ability alone was subverted by the pressure from well-heeled parents to ensure their kids got in, and an increasing anxiety about the damage to the life chances of kids condemned to secondary moderns, weighed down by the sense of failure and seeing their school as a stigma not a badge of pride. Grammar schools cast their nets wider and wider, until hardly any poor children go to them.
  19. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter

    We have that problem in our town. One grammar has a charter to educate the sons of merchants in the town. They now takes lads from 3 counties. :(
  20. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    It was a great idea but underfunded.

    An academic education can be provided with less resources than can a technical education so it worked better for those at grammar schools than secondary moderns.

    In times of less money going into education in real terms and of expanding rolls I suspect it will translate into more "cheap" subjects being taught in the non-grammars whatever they will be called.
    emerald52 and Burndenpark like this.

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