1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Grammar School in hot water

Discussion in 'Education news' started by blazer, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

  2. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Good - I hope they get badly scalded.
    It's immoral, it appears to be illegal, and it's everything education shouldn't be about. I wonder what their school values include? I doubt they're living up to them.
    vannie, nomad and needabreak like this.
  3. ScienceGuy

    ScienceGuy Occasional commenter

    I suspect a lot of schools / colleges will be following this case with interest. At my centre D grades are necessary at AS to carry on for a second year (changing to E from next year when we go to A level exams only). Will we have to allow all students to carry on despite it not being in their best interest?
  4. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

    I suspect that it's not just about grades ....
  5. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    I dont know whether to laugh, cry or wait for someone to kick the schools SMT in the you know wheres.

    I will vent my spleen. How long I have lived with methods like these in my own workplace - but rather than being whole school policies it is often department by department.. I have lost count of the number of times the physics or chemistry depts dump their garbage and as I am the only subject they are left taking I end up with the scum results. This year is a classic example. I have a pupil who failed at the end of year one in all ,subjects but he was allowed to continue. By February he had been removed from a subject which left him taking my subject and one other. I made it clear he would fail as did my colleague in the other subject. I thought said p;upil had continued to do both subjects and was entered for both but when I saw the results last week I saw that he had been dumped out of the other subject and only silly B 8 #* gger me was stuck with him. All departments except mine had a 100% pass rate. Now I will be called to explain why he failed in my dept and why I did not get a 100% pass rate!

    I have two other students who only have D in my sub ject but they got a C ( resit) at AS in another - I will now be asked to explain why they couldnt do better in mt ( new spec) A level..... and so it goes on and on.

    Thats what happens. Of course St Olaves is much higher than my mediocre little institution and so dump garbage that cant make a B or better.

    Instead of crying to the press or lawyers the parents need to face facts and con front the cause of all this - league tables in school exam results.

    What is described as happening at St. Olaves goes on across top schools throughout the country ( especially grammar schools). I can recall when I first started teaching that students would be removed and put in for exams privately if it was thought they might fail or they were kicked out altogether and the head of that school got a gong off the government for having an outstanding school!

    My sympathy is lost I am afraid. Kicked out of me by years of dealing with being beaten every year for poor results.

    Personally I dont care what kid takes what, pass or fail - if they want to take the subject, take it but dont blame me, dont kick me very year and stop bleating about league tables . If you are a parent , then suck it up! You cannot have it al ways. You put your kids in a top school and now you have found out how they remain a tops school. Tough.

    Sorry about the rant.
    Shedman and grumpydogwoman like this.
  6. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    It would be very interesting to see how many started the course and how many finished the course.

    I know 1 private school that has several colleges - where pupils transfer between them so each particular college appears to do well. Maybe the schools need to set up sub schools.
  7. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    It may well not be but I dont think some people realise how much pressure there is at A level for schools to top out on grades and top out on top university places. Some schools remove their failures, others , like top schools mentioned elsewhere have ways and means of finding out the exam questions and they prep their students accordingly (some call that cheating of course).
  8. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    I'm sorry, but I am struggling to see what is wrong with students getting 3 Cs at this stage. Maybe I'm wrong about the grading, but in my day grades A - E were A level passes. In the lower 6th, what is the problem with achieving below a B grade? The school isn't throwing them out because they are likely to fail their A levels - at least, the reports doesn't indicate that (according to the report, many achieved high GCSE grades), just that it doesn't look as if they will get A or A* A levels.

    Do you know, I thought education was for the benefit of the pupils, not the school. Not all pupils need high grade A levels for their chosen career. A C or d grade will suffice. Well, tough for the school. Children's futures are more important than poxy league tables. I hope this goes all the way to court and the school loses.:mad:
  9. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Lead commenter

    The parents must have been pretty blinkered not to know what went on at their own child's school, and how they achieved such stunning results. Maybe they chose not to know, so pleased were they that their child was going to a 'top' school. They chose a selective system, were delighted when it worked for them and didn't realise what would happen when it didn't, and didn't think about the poor blighters who would also have liked to have gone to that 'top' school but failed, on the day of the wholly unreliable test, to get in.

    If the parents win there will be some serious thinking at the country's 'top' sixth forms, who only achieve what they do by recruiting A grade students and getting rid of the poor performers at the end of year 12. If they're no longer allowed to lose their less than perfect students maybe it will finally expose their 'topness' for what it really is - starting with good material and managing to hang onto it. Hardly a very difficult task compared to what many supposedly less good schools manage.
  10. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I also worry when so called educationalists refer to students as garbage and their grades as scum. :rolleyes:
    Missbubbleblue, yodaami2 and vannie like this.
  11. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    I was told that the entering as private students or entering at other centres had been stopped because it was deemed illegal sometime ago. I dont know if that is correct but I do know it was common practice in my last place of employment -" a centre of excellence " with top results in the county.

    According to the article 16 pupils had been told not to return following the AS results ( so not just those two). I would like to know how many will be turfed out by February so they can be entered privately too.
  12. Deirds

    Deirds Established commenter

    My son's school claims to be fully comprehensive and makes people resit a year if they don't get 3 Cs. Those who do get 3 Cs are forced onto courses they've never heard of to up their grades in A level year. I hope this makes them sit up and take notice.
  13. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Not all parents are teachers just like not all teachers are parents. There is no reason the average parent would know their child would be thrown out of year 13 after getting a C at AS when a C is as Chelsea2 points out actually a perfectly acceptable pass for a year 12 student.

    Incidentally no doubt like many others I have helped some students with a grade D/E improve to grade A's and A*'s before so I would say the school has no faith in the quality of teaching.
  14. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    You can worry as much as you like, its the way I feel. The term garbage is not my own , it was taken from the article. As for scum results - my SLT tell me that every year.

    I have a scum department and students are dumped from other subjects like some sort of garbage - so what am I supposed to call them?

    I dont see why I should have to apologize for my feelings and the way I am made to feel. I was once a good teacher ( I still am) but I always take the poorest students and so my department is always the scum one ( SLT say so).
    grumpydogwoman and saluki like this.
  15. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    @needabreak - I am not an "educationalist" I am a chalk face teacher who has all the problems of same. Maybe you need to take a break and in so doing give the rest of us a break from your high moralising .

    I teach a lot of A level students who arrive in my class without GCSE grade C in English or maths and sometimes a lack of both. They often do far better in my subject than they do in other subjects they take (or they get thrown out of other subjects and do not take). But I am still the head of a scummy department because I dont have the best students.

    Yes, this year, in amongst my D and E grades and that one U I got an A* and an A as well but SLT are blind to those achievements. Would that my school did a St. Olaves and got rid of the bottom liners - but of course bums on seats and fees in the bank are big drivers ( just like in more illustrious schools such as Eton, Charterhouse etc.).
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  16. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    The worrying thing about the article is that it appears to be unlawful only because the school is state-maintained and has to abide by exclusion guidelines. It states that academies, on the other hand, can make their own policy. So I presume academies can get away with this sort of behaviour and much more probably.
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It has not. All the exam boards cater for private candidates. However, not all subjects are available to them (validating coursework is generally the big obstacle). Schools can refuse to accommodate private candidates, of course.
    needabreak and wanet like this.
  18. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    In my son's school something similar has been happening in year 11- not exclusions but students being told late in the year that the school will not be entering them for certain GCSES. It happened to some of my son's friends and they were very upset, after studying for so long.

    As @needabreak said, it isn't always possible to predict a student's performance so far in advance, how does the school know whether they will cram like mad or get some tuition in the final weeks.
    needabreak likes this.
  19. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

    Is this really a "top" grammar school?

    We know what Eton, Winchester and Charterhouse have been getting up to recently. There has been no independent public investigation of these places so we don't really know whether they are "top" or whether there is a less savoury reason. Is this place any different?

    The UK is losing the plot. The education system is now completely disjointed. It has lost it's way with dodgy exam boards constantly trying to save money by cutting corners, an ineffective regulator, qualifications that aren't fit for many students, different schools that are all over the place, a sham of 'elite' qualifications, crazily paid "executives" driving BMWs using public funds, and May bleats on about creating a fairer society!

    Thank God I'm out.
  20. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Now you say they are dumped like garbage so you called them garbage? If you had previously said that they are treated like garbage being dumped in your dept, then I could understand your point as I headed one such dept. There are many who get dumped on you are not alone, we make the best of it and on the whole ensure each student achieves the best they can... not denegrate their achievements.

    If I am moralizing by suggesting we shouldn't refer to our students as garbage (presumably you mean those who have low/middling predicted grades in the context of this thread and a middle/low grade as scum) then so be it.

    I tend not to post or speak of people as I wouldn't feel comfortable referring to them to their faces, but each to their own.

    I would be concerned as a parent too and this is a public forum.

    I tend to refer to my students as students.
    yodaami2 and wanet like this.

Share This Page