1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Government considering compulsory vaccines

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Guest, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Owennnn

    Owennnn Occasional commenter

    Why spend monumental amount of time and money making a vaccine that is specific to immunocompromised individuals, when perfectly fine vaccines for everyone else already exist.

    The only scaremongering is coming FROM the antivaxxers, that's the whole reason we're having this discussion.
  2. Owennnn

    Owennnn Occasional commenter

    Vaccines don't depend on herd immunity, herd immunity depends on vaccines.
  3. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Yes, they should cure cancer, AIDS and all mental illnesses as well while they are at it.
    FrankWolley likes this.
  4. Owennnn

    Owennnn Occasional commenter

    Its like they're not even trying.
    Mangleworzle likes this.
  5. maggie m

    maggie m Lead commenter

    And then we need to work on the vaccines for scarlet fever and rheumatic fever. There were major killers up to the second world war. There should be vaccines for these illnesses and I cannot for the life of me think why we don't have them.
    It was a leading cause of death in children in the early 20th century.[/QUOTE]

    I understood that the organisms responsible for these two nasty illness mutated and became less virulent.
  6. Nellyfuf2

    Nellyfuf2 Senior commenter

    Scarlet Fever - deaths and injuries from this were reduced because of better nutrition, sanitation, hygiene, health care etc -post 1950. It is still around though but is no longer a deadly killer because of better nutrition, sanitation etc etc.
    Rheumatic Fever is a complication of a throat infection - used to be the cause of 2 out of every hundred deaths in the US (Can't find British stats) - mainly because of resulting heart problems. It was whacked with antibiotics in the days when they were given out like sweeties. The good side of this was that people did not get Rheumatic Fever. The bad side is antibiotic resistance... Don't know what the current situation is with this one. My dad had that and died comparatively young.
    The point is that these diseases were brought under control by better nutrition, sanitation, hygiene etc etc. Child mortality improved as society improved - including outcomes of measles. Better housing, better water, better and free health care.
    What the anti vaxxers say is that children are now not healthy - in return for immunity, we have auto immune diseases in abundance. And mental health problems, if the media is to be believed, abound. Asthma. Eczema. Diabetes. It is not fear of autism and adverse events that makes parents avoid early vaccines. It is these auto immune problems.
    But me? I just look at the increase in the number of children with autism and wonder. Yes Wakefield was discredited. But if you have been bitten around the ankles whilst trying to host a visit from Santa in nursery, you do dwell on such things.
    So why the increase in autism?
    So you could understand - if you used your imagination, that a parent who has a child that has been diagnosed with autism, would be looking at vaccines and worrying. Do such parents get official support to avoid early vaccination for other children? I don't know.
    Has an improvement in standards of living led to an increase in autism? What has then? It has an auto immune aspect, that is proven. I have a young second cousin with autism. There's no family history of this.
    They are building two huge bungalows up the road from me as accommodation for young autistic adults. And yet when I worked with the learning difficulties community across the whole of this city, I saw very few older people with autism. It was much rarer some 30 years ago and even then, the age group was the younger end of the community.
    When we get the answer to this question then vaccine rates for measles will go up.
  7. Doglover

    Doglover Occasional commenter

    Rheumatic fever arises from scarlet fever.

    Scarlet fever, although making a resurgence, is generally quite easily treated by antibiotics. It no longer poses the kind of threat it used to.
  8. Doglover

    Doglover Occasional commenter

    My children are on the autistic spectrum. I remember thinking before giving my eldest child the MMR vaccine, “If my child gets autism as a result of this I’ll never forgive myself...”
    She did get autism and I had no problem living with the fact she’d had the MMR vaccine. I knew deep down that she had autism long before she got the vaccine at 15 months. If I hadn’t given it to her, she would still have had autism.
    What I could not have lived with was either my child or someone else’s dying from a condition they were not vaccinated against, because of me. That would be unforgivable!
    monicabilongame likes this.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Vaccines don’t always protect though. Flu vaccines don’t work on strands that have mutated. Will flu vaccines become mandatory? Or will there soon be vaccines that are airborne? The technology to do this is close in coming. I posted because I’m undecided how I feel about this. It’s like fluoridation of water, benefits many but can make a few really poorly. My child is vaccinated but compulsory vaccines seems a bit Orwellian to me.
  10. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    You answered your own question, didn't you? ;)

    Flu vaccines don’t work on strands that have mutated
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2019
  11. Doglover

    Doglover Occasional commenter

    There are different strains of flu. It is not possible to vaccinate against them all in any one year. Therefore they have to do their best to predict, as best they can, which one to vaccinate against.
    You also need to bear in mind what the purpose of each vaccination programme is. The aim of the MMR for example, is to ultimately achieve maximum immunity and therefore hopefully eradicate certain diseases.
    However with flu, that is never going to be the case. Having the condition or the vaccine doesn’t give life-long immunity from the disorder. The purpose of the programme is to protect individuals who are particularly susceptible to flu. Doing so not only protects them, but it also reduces costs and demands on an already over-burdened health service. The goal of flu vaccine is not to establish immunity in an entire population.
    border_walker likes this.
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hmm, I do see your point but I also wonder why, when most of the anti-vaccine movement started with the MMR/autism scaremongering, there is not the option of taking the vaccines separately. My daughter had the MMR but I did ask at the time if it was possible to pay and have them separately, but it wasn’t.
  13. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The NHS does not recommend single measles, mumps or rubella vaccines, as there's no evidence to support their use or to suggest that they're safer than MMR.

    Having single vaccines could also put your child at risk of catching measles, mumps or rubella in the time between the doses of each of the vaccines.

    Some private clinics in the UK offer single vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella, but the NHS does not keep a list of them.

    This is because clinics that offer these privately are unlicensed, which means there are no checks on their safety and effectiveness.

    No country in the world recommends MMR and then offers parents a choice of having single vaccines instead.

  14. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    The autism 'link' has been disproved soundly.
    One issue is that autism is very difficult to diagnose, and a child usually begins to present with possible symptoms of autism around the same time as the MMR is given. One might just as well saif 50% of children vaccinated had toast for breakfast then toast must cause autism.
    There is no doubt vaccines save lives.
    There is also a (very) small risk of side effects from vaccination, as there is with any medical intervention. But the risk is tiny....................................much smaller than the risk of getting seriously injured or killed in an accident on the way to the surgery to get vaccinated.
    We just fixate on tiny risks and ignore the big risks.
  15. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    There are other medical reasons than just allergies for not receiving vaccinations which should otherwise be mandatory, including children who are immune-suppressed, such as children undergoing chemotherapy, or those suffering from weakened immune systems after serious illness. There are also people like me who had febrile convulsions as a baby, for whom it is sometimes then advisable not to risk further vaccinations.

    Are we going to have to ban children undergoing treatment for cancer from our school system to protect the rights of some parents to choose not to vaccinate children their children because of some rubbish they read on the internet?

    I should also add that I think I read once that the magic percentage take-up of vaccines which in theory establishes herd immunity varies for different diseases. Obviously, the more the better, but I do think we should be aiming to meet these targets if we can, by any means possible, including mandatory vaccinations for all those medically able to have them before starting school.
    border_walker and Doglover like this.
  16. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    You didn't see many older people with autism out and about when I was young because they went from special school to asylum. Doesn't mean it didn't exist, though my perception is that it's more prevalent now. Just like nut allergies, hay-fever and asthma.
  17. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

  18. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    The average child spends only a small proportion of their typical year in school, so although school would be an obvious source of disease transmission it would by no means be the only one. If you bar the unvaccinated child from state school, where else do you bar them from? Play group? Brownies? Beavers? IKEA ball pool? Santa's grotto?

    Don't get me wrong here, I agree that vaccination is the sensible thing to do, so I'm just playing Devil's Advocaat, but what concerns me is the legal minefield of state compulsion. Any legislation would have to be very specific, and would, one assumes, set a precedent for compulsory state medical intervention for conditions considered a threat. It's not that long ago that Alan Turing was receiving 'treatment' for his homosexuality at the behest of the state. Once the major diseases are dealt with what might a more authoritarian government legislate for? Compulsory re-education and exclusion for known Tories or Socialists? I've become increasingly convinced that Conservatism is a form of mental illness, so what would happen if a deranged despot like me got into power? That's the problem with setting a precedent in our legal system, surely.
  19. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Devil’s Advocaat

    I had febrile convulsions as a child in the 1950’s. I was advised by my GP not to vaccinate my daughter against whooping cough. She caught it and was seriously ill for a long time and afterwards became a poor sleeper with nightmares.
  20. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    All very rational, but if my child had a compromised immune system so they could not be vaccinated, and I learned that some children are sitting next to them in the classroom who haven't been vaccinated owing to the stubborn and anti-rational stupidity of the parents, I would try and insist on those children being removed from that class.

Share This Page