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Going abroad straight after PGCE - 5 year rule mystery - facts needed

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by keenasmustard50, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. Hello
    My intention is to teach abroad straight after PGCE qualification.
    However, can someone please clarify the facts on what my status would be upon my return. I have read a number of conflicting posts.
    Scenario 1
    If I return to the UK after 5 years or more my PGCE, and QTS status would be void, and I would have to repeat my PGCE.

    Scenario 2
    If I return to the Uk after 5 years or more my PGCE, and QTS would still be valid, but if I wanted to work in the state sector, I would still be required to complete my NQT year, and would start at the bottom of the pay scale.

    Can someone confirm which of the above scenarios is correct. If neither is correct someone confirm what the situation would be, or direct me to somewhere or someone that could confirm this.
    Could well be the rules might have changed in 5 years, just trying to clarify what the ruling is now.
    I appreciate there are pros and cons to teaching abroad straight after my PGCE.
    I am just trying to establish the facts on my status upon my return to the UK, say after 5 years or more teaching abroad.

    Thank you for your time people


  2. You would be extremely foolish to move abroad straight away after your PGCE.
    Most international schools require minimum 2 years experience and many countries- USA, much of Europe for example- require two teachable subjects to MA level in order to teach in state schools. Competition is intense. Many Americans have MAs and want to move out of the US.
    Any international school worth its salt would not give you a job if you are just qualified and no experience.
    In order to validate your QTS status you must first complete a year of teaching to put everything in order.
    Unless you have a particular personal situation- your fiancé(e) is a diplomat or already working abroad for example- you would be advised to 'get qualified' and get at least 2-3 years under your belt before travelling abroad.
    In the current economic climate finding a job is not going to be that easy, particularly on the inernational circuit.

    The only exception would be British Forces Schools- they have schools abroad but function as part of the British Education system. Possibly same for EU schools- but jobs in the latter are like gold dust and unless you are a linguist and exceptionally well qualified you might as well forget it.
  3. Oh. the five year thing assumes you have already completed your NQT status.
    It is extremely difficult to return after five years. Most people do not return for various reasons. Applying for a job in the UK from abroad is difficult- state schools are not interested. There are so many teachers on the market.
    Go do 2 or 3 years and see if you really want to go abroad or evenstay in teaching. The attrition rate is large.
  4. Bbetter to get QTS done before you go abroad. It would be wise to undertake your NQT year before teaching abroad.
  5. missmunchie

    missmunchie Occasional commenter

    I taught in the UK (Scotland) for 2 years after qualifying. I then moved to Spain and have been here for almost 8 years. I have taught on and off due to having a family. I have about 5 years teaching experience in total. I have always taught my subject (Physics) so would this 5 year rule apply to mt too? I´ve not heard of this before, help!
  6. invincible

    invincible New commenter

    You do seem confused. No wonder as traiing institutions don't really go out of their way to explain this in detail.
    Your scenario 2 is more correct but let's get a few things straight first. Your QTS means you are already qualified. You will always have this and, upon your return to the UK, you would not have to retake the PGCE, which you can't do anyway. Once you have it, you have it for life. It never becomes void.
    If you do return to the UK after 5 years, you would still have to do the NQT year to be allowed to work in the state sector. You have to prove you can still jump through all the government hoops. Chances are you would fall back to the bottom of the pay scale. Fortunately, the 5 year rule that used to be in existance, whereby NQTs had to complete induction within 5 years of starting it (not within 5 years of gaining QTS) was dropped in Septemeber last year so you would still be able to do this.
    However, as other posters have stated, it would be extremely difficult for you to get started in the UK after 5 years away and not having done induction as things change so quickly and, although you would have loads of experience under your belt, not much of it would be relevant to working in the state sector in the UK and it would be very difficult to prove you could do induction, let alone get a job, upon return. Hence, if going back to the UK is in your long term plans, it is much better to do induction first and get a couple of years under your belt before moving abroad, especially as the better schools look for this experience before they would even touch you, as one poster has already said.
    After all this, if you still want to go overseas before doing induction, you could but you'd have to be very wary as the school who take NQTs are usually the ones who will take anything and anybody and are not so reputable (or so the general concensus goes). If you did, all is not lost as you could always apply for a job in an independent school in the UK, where induction means diddly squat, so you wouldn't have to do it.
    All the info on induction is on the TDA website if you want to look it up. It's a big decision and one I had to make also, so I know where you're coming from. Good luck.

  7. invincible

    invincible New commenter

    Apologies for all the spelling mistakes and typos in my last post. Am not awake yet :-(
  8. The five year thing is targeted at mums to get themback into the profession having had kids.
    Organising CRB checks from abroad is a nightmare.
    There are going to be millions of unemployed qualified banking bods and others seeking any old job in the next 5 years.
    You would be well advised to get NQT year done in England and then see how the next 3-5 years pan out.
    We're in 1976.
    By the end of next year Labour will have got in the IMF and deflation is going to have dire consequences on the entire economy.
    Ask anyone who is old enough to remember the 1970s.
  9. ian60

    ian60 New commenter

    Have you considered the VSO option?
    I know they are a lot more choosey than when I did my bit, but it certainly is a life changing experience.
    And I believe that future UK employers may look more favourably upon a couple of years in the developing world rather than a few years that may be seen as coining it or prolonged sunbathing.
  10. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    If you are planning to make a career in international teaching, good luck to you! There seem to be a lot of posters who think that this might not be such a good idea. Having taught in Kenya, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Romania, Qatar and (as from August of next year) the UAE, I have to say that I do not think that it makes much difference whether you go abroad straight after your PGCE. Some teachers find it hard to adjust to teaching overseas and it does not appear to make much difference if they have just finished their PGCE or whether they have already done several years of teaching in their own country. Once you have worked overseas, I do not think that you will want to return to the UK. Council Tax? Rain?
  11. Lots of UK state schools will be sacking teachers.
    The country is broke. In every sense.
    Every been to Bangladesh?
  12. I think its very true to say that as a result of the budget the number of TLR points within schools could possibly decrease and expensive intra-school projects will probably be shelved; I would be surprised though to see the number of posts decreasing...

    Anyway in answer to the original question; in my humble opinion, when I started teaching I asked a similar question about doing my NQT year abroad, or very soon after. I was advised to learn the ropes in the UK. I didn't like the answer, but fate meant that I completed my NQT and 3 additional years before moving abroad.

    It has worked out really well for me. I gained knowledge and skills that you would only get in the best of the international schools. I had plenty of support from individuals and on a whole school level that I haven't seen whilst working abroad. Because I stayed, I can definitely say that I am a better teacher and also that I gained many opportunities and moved on more quickly in the international educational field than I would have otherwise.

    But that's just my opinion...
  13. There is already a question o^ver A Level funding.
    Some international schools are insulated against hard times: places like Geneva, NY or Brussels have loads of UN, international organisations or NATO to keep up the numbers. Other places like Zurich, Stuttgart or Milan are goin to be hit hard- their clientèle is business.
  14. typo loads of .... kids...
  15. geminidove

    geminidove New commenter

    Just a note to remember Smirk, it's not necessarily 'extremely foolish' to teach abroad straight after teacher training - it depends entirely on the person and their life. Personally, after completion of my 4 year course I was 'put-off' teaching. It's only now I realise, it was teaching 'in England' that put-me-off. I teach overseas now and am getting married to a native of the country I live in. I love my job - I am actually TEACHING without; paperwork, unnecessary planning and assessment more concerned with collecting evidence of attainment than the attainment itself, fear of accusations being made against you, having enormous difficulty just getting a job and, quite frankly, living in a pretty depressing country and education system...! Research some of the approaches and methods to 'successful' education in countries, such as Denmark... Anyway, how do you know how you will feel until after you have taught abroad...?

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