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Global Nomad point of view

Discussion in 'Overseas trained teachers' started by Kashoo, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. I have been teaching in American schools overseas for the past 15 years. It's interesting but also quite scary to read everyone's comments about the lack of acceptance of teachers with overseas experience in this country. I would think that with such a high population of multicultural society in the UK, teachers with cultural diversity awareness, EAL teaching knowledge, often bilingual, would be appreciated and valued. It is quite interesting that the experience in international system is highly valued and gives teachers the best opportunity to get top jobs everywhere else in the world, but the UK. The whole Cover Supervisors idea is even more horrifying than anything else. Overseas teachers, fully qualified UK teachers are being rejected and cover supervisors who have nothing to do with education teach kids. Where is this country heading? Is it all about money or all about high quality of education? My partner is British and we currently live apart, he is in the UK and I teach overseas. I am planning to move to the UK, but after reading how difficult, close to impossible it is to get a teaching job, I seriously doubt in any success other than retraining. Does anyone have positive experience in finding a job after teaching overseas?
  2. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    It seems you might well be a US citizen, though it is not clear.

    Do you present the 50 States of the Union and the Purto Rican colony as having an open door for foreign teachers?

    Or Australia?

    Or Canada?

    Have the 53 administrations which I mention above taken this message to heart?

    If not, with whom are you comparing the UK?

    The issue of OTT vs CS is a red herring.

    CS vs QTS is the real issue. And yes, the current situation is horrifying.
  3. JeanL

    JeanL New commenter

    I'm from the US and have been job hunting here in London for a year. MEd, 20 years international school & EAL experience, spouse visa. I've been working as a TA for agency rates. I don't get it, wouldn't you want someone who has worked in 9 countries to teach your child and inspire them to travel, learn languages, be tolerant and curious about other cultures???
    When I went to school in the US all the language teachers were foreign. When I taught in Arizona 5 of the teachers were foreign including a highly valued Somalian teacher who help the recent immigrants from Somalia. Whereever I have supply taught in London (granted in the "less desirable" schools) most of the staff has been foreign. So why can't I land a job in a good school? I need to do my QTS soon so I don't "expire."

  4. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    The clear implication of this is that foreign teachers are a special group who have no problem in using their special skills to walk to the front of the queue and thereby circumventing at a stroke the generally horrendously tough US immigration and work permit aka green card procedures.

    As yesterday was Oscars´ night, you shouldn´t be surprised to hear that I think your version is pure Hollywood.
    You don´t get it do you?

    Have you ever heard of "nation states" ?

    Some of us locally have been asking ourselves that for (considerably) more than 20 years.
  5. I have been in the UK nearly ten years and in that time have gained a QTS, completed a BA (HONS) degree and are halfway through to completing an MA degree in a field to do with education. Still doing supply teaching though. I have applied to numerous jobs and either don't get replies or when I do it's to be thanked for applying and wished luck. Those that I have managed to gain an interview I get informed that the better candidate got the job etc etc . In some cases I've been informed that I'm not creative enough.......yet when I do supply many schools ask for me over and over again. I am also in the upper age range of over 50 so age might be the number.......I'm now feeling devalued, unappreciated, demeaned and desperate and am considering re-emigrating to a place where I'll be valued for the contribution + diverse experience/cultural knowledge that I'm willing to make and share.

  6. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    Surely these points are covered by my comments at the end of post 4?

    Yes, but that´s not an OTT thing either. The main victims of rampant ageism in teaching here are...... the Brits!
    I know this will sound uncaring, but that too is not an OTT exclusive. There are enormous numbers of locals who share exactly the same emotions.
  7. As a UK trained teacher in NZ - I constantly come up against anti-POM racism when applying for work. MI get annoyed listening to half trained NZ teachers thinking that they can just walk into the UK jobs market. I still remember one practicum teacher that told me that if she couldn't get a maths job in a NZ school then she could always go to the UK. I asked her how she would cope with being a NQT - she didn't even know what this was. I then am constantly amused at working in dept's with kiwis that have lived and worked in the UK for umpteen years - thinking that is their god given right to do so.

    I just feel that in the UK we are a little too easy going.....
  8. I think the foreign attitude towards obtaining work easily in the UK is from the fact that for many many years it has been ridiculously easy to obtain full time continuing work in the UK due to the complete and total lack of standards the country has in hiring educators of students. I was trained in BC, Canada. My wife and I went directly from university to full time work in middle England. We went through a recruiting agency and had work within 2 weeks of registering. We each had a 5 minute phone interview and we were both hired for positions that did not easily match our qualifications, further highlighting the lack of real standards. We were both successful (both running departments before leaving 3 years later). I feel this is due to the considerably superior teacher training and university education available in Canada; however we did manage to learn a lot about behaviour management that is simply not as serious an issue in most Canadian schools.

    The truth is the UK system (not Scottish I understand that) will allow an "unqualified" teacher to work and educate children for up to 4 years before becoming officially qualified. We left partially due to the QTS issue as we refused to jump through the hoops after 3 very successful years proving ourselves. Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for QTS, but the process is wrong. If the UK simply insisted on all OTT's obtaining QTS within their first year of teaching many of these problems would be avoided.

    The "anti-pom" racism is not so much racism as a general feeling superior towards UK trained teachers. The system in the country at just about every conceivable level is broken and how anyone can defend it is beyond me.
  9. Karvol

    Karvol Occasional commenter

    A tad contradictory.
    This is so pathetic it is barely worth a comment. Canada has three universities in the world top 100 rankings compared to the UK's 19. You have one university in the top 20 and not a single one in the top 4 compared to the UK's 4 in the top 10.
    I have heard this a number of times from Canadian's who seem to live in some parallel world where their universities are world class and everybody is in awe of them. In the real world - excepting McGill - your universities are not worth a damn.
  10. <font size="3">Apologies for the lack of quantitative evidence, this would certainly provide an interesting study. I have to confess not being aware of the "Russell Group", I would assume this is a low level University organization that produce many of yoru educators? I have worked with some incredibly talented and passionate educators from the UK; however, the proportion of poorly trained, poorly prepared and poorly performing ones far exceeds this. It is a sad state of affairs where a local population actively reduces the quality of it's own education by refusing to teach the most under privileged to a high standard. I don't really have a leg to stand on here as I currently work in a selective international school, but my experience in the UK was 3 ye</font><font size="3">ars in one of the worst in the country. </font><font size="3"></font>
    <font size="3">To answer your question about teaching in Canada; it is not that we are unwilling to teacher there, it is we are unable to find full time and continuous work due to the high number of teachers there already and the low number of schools, and declining enrollment. For right or wrong our hiring policies are not based on experience or ability, rather senority within a given district (LEA). I would rather turn the question by asking, how is your University system not able to produce enough local teachers to fill the needs of your country's education system without resorting to foreign hires, even in the "worst" schools? Or is it that there are enough teachers, but the training simply doesn&rsquo;t prepare them for the reality of teaching in the average (not worst) UK school and they wash out early? I would work in Canada at the drop of a hat given the opportunity; however the lure of guaranteed full time employment offered to foreign teachers by the UK was too tempting. </font><font size="3"></font>
    <font size="3">The major difference between the UK and Canada currently is that you simply would not be hired as your qualifications (regardless of your world university rankings) are not considered equivalent to ours. Not necessarily correct, or fair, but the system as it is. The truth is, the worst school in Canada <u>could not</u> legally hire you without asking you to upgrade your qualifications; whereas the best school in the UK could (not saying would) hire me without asking for any upgrade (even more true from leafy suburb independents that don't necessarily require QTS!).</font> <font size="3"></font>
    <font size="3"> A good debate, look forward to the reply!</font>
  11. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    This surely is the kernel of the matter in the short term and, couched in these terms,precludes using recognition/non recognition as proof of the superiority/ inferiority of one countries teacher education/training system versus anothers, I think.

    It would be interesting to hear more of you opinions of the UK (by which most people on here mean English, though of course it is not coterminous) schooling system and the teachers employed there.

    It is always fascinating to "see ourselves as others see us", though of course this is no guarantee of perspicacity on the part of the outside observer. A slight scepticism not in any way assuaged by your apparent failure to Google the phrase "Russell group" before your last reply. (Unless that is Canadians "do irony" in a way that their southern cousins do not.)

  12. I walked into the USA ( well, flew) with a PGCE and went on to complete qualifications, with first year teachers, as a single subject teacher and Special Ed teacher. Yes, I had to go back to the begining of the paygrade and complete classes but isn't that the same as the NQT requirements?


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