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Gifted and talented Primary Music?

Discussion in 'Music' started by gilly33, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Are children in primary school who play a musical instrument considered as gifted and talented in music. My daughter has singing lessons through local authority at a local high school. Whilst we were waiting a teacher was directing children to a gifted and talented area. My daughter also plays violin but taught privately not through music service. also, if this is not the case does anybody know what sort of level would be thought of as G&T. I ask as music forms a large part of my daughters life both at school, home and socially. I addition, would like to prepare and be well informed as obviously when looking for secondary schools in the future. My daughter is y3 and grade 3/4 violin/ voice.
  2. bod99

    bod99 New commenter

    I would expect children who achieve above grade 2 ish to be considered above standard for primary school, but I have not seen any national statistics for this. I think it also depends on how long they have learnt etc. A child who has grade 3 but has been learning for 4 years would not, in my opinion, be necessarily showing particularly amazing talent or giftedness, but perhaps a dedication to practising.A child who picks up an instrument and plays particularly musically immediately might be more gifted in this area.
    The level your daughter has achieved should make her on the G and T
    list, however she might not show this level in her class music through
    composing etc. What are you hoping for if she's included on a list?
    Ignore the lists and look for a secondary where she'll have
    opportunities to play and perform and where she'll be happy.
  3. sparklepig2002

    sparklepig2002 Star commenter

    I had a year 6 child who was grade 7 on the violin -certainly very talented on his instrument, but in class, during composing and performing produced relatively poor work. He has also passed grade 5 theory but certanily didnt (or perhaps didn't want to) apply his knowledge to class activities.
  4. Alphaalpha

    Alphaalpha New commenter

    Grade 8 on Tuba at age 11 is G and T. I had one! Grade 8 on percussion at 13 is totally amazing. My best was percussion 143 grade 5 at age 10! All relative!!
  5. The 'gifted and talented area' that you observed may be an initiative by the music service to give opportunities to those identified by their schools who are not currently involved in the music service. The criteria for identification varies from school to school and is not clear-cut, although most would not put all children who play an instrument on the register. Your daughter is certainly doing very well in her music for her age. There is a misconception about any kind of giftedness, and that is that everything comes easily with it. Being gifted in something at a young age is all about the potential and everyone needs to work at it and have support to become outstanding. As a previous poster said, being on the list doesn't mean much in itself if it is not backed up by some sort of provision to support it.
    I would suggest:
    1, finding out from the music service what the gifted and talented area was all about
    2, finding out whether your daughter's school identifies students who are gifted and talented in music, if so what the criteria are (if any) and what provision they offer to those identified.
  6. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    I believe some schools just nominate the top 5%-10% in each year group as G&T in each subject. I've seen others that specify AB grades, such as:
    Gd.2 or higher by Year 7
    Gd.3 or higher by Year 8 etc
    I don't regard either of these methods as satisfactory, incidentally.
  7. I find this all very interesting! Here are a few random thoughts...

    I know in many subjects it is just the top % in any given class.

    I wonder if playing an instrument is always a sign of G&T - sometimes just a sign of disciplined practice as griffin63 says.

    I also wonder about the whole G&T curriculum - I remember looking at recommendations for this a few years back and thinking that, if properly taught, most children would be more than capable of this!
  8. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Lead commenter

    I've come across a lot of teachers who are scared of good young instrumentalists, especially where the child's abilities exceed their own. It leads to the sort of comments above about children knowing nothing or being no good at composition (I have yet to meet the young Mozart who is any good at composing in primary school, though plenty can churn out generic drivel that probably ticks a few boxes). Some teachers like to treat good instrumentalists as trained monkeys because it's easier than accepting that the children are actually quite skilled at something.Children who have advanced way beyond what is normal in primary school are probably disconcerted by their own strangeness. I have certainly encountered this. My son was, for example, saddened that his school went on and on about other pupils' out of school sporting successes but never gave his achievements a mention. So he chooses now to keep quiet about what he does.

    In a small school with only the odd good instrumentaist it's always going to be hard to accommodate them. Mine all just gave up on doing any music in school and did the things they wanted to outside school. There are lots of opportunities. But it's a pity that some teachers don't make proper use of their instrumentalists.

    To be grade 3 violin at Y3 is a brilliant start. It doesn't necessarily denote G&T, but only because that's such a silly idea and there's so much more to it. No one is going to be gifted and talented at the violin if they've never had a lesson!

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