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Further Mathematics

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by DM, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. DM

    DM New commenter

    I would think twice about leaving FP1 until Year 13 - if some students want to drop FM after one year they will not achieve a qualification.
  2. KYP

    KYP New commenter

    Might be wrong, but this wouldn't give an AS Further Maths qualification after 1 year, so students wouldn't be able to drop to single maths after the first year.
    We do (AQA) C1, C2, D1, M1, S1 and FP1 in the first year, C3, C4, FP2, FP3, FP4 plus D2, M2 or S2 in the second. Our double maths students are taught separately from single mathematics throughout as we are a large sixth form college, but using your model you could swap FP1 and M2.
    If you are looking at Edexcel, according to the specification, FP1 assumes knowledge of C1 and C2, although it looks as if you could teach a lot of it before C2 is completed. M2 assumes knowledge of C1, C2 and C3, so really needs to go in Yr 13. FP2, FP3 need C1, C2, C3 and C4. M3 needs a good chunk of C1-C4.
    But I don't have practical experience of teaching all these modules, so others may be able to give more informed advice.
    (posted at same time as DM!)
  3. adamcreen

    adamcreen Occasional commenter

    As others have said, the benefit of doing FP1 in Year 12 is two-fold:

    1) it doesn't involve any calculus (except 1 TINY bit) so can be started at the same time as C1

    2) they can get an AS in Further and then drop to single if they wish

    It was only when Edexcel changed the FP1 content that this was possible, and it led to an EXPLOSION in the number of students doing Further AS.

    We do: C1 C2 M1 S1 FP1 D1 in Year 12

    and C3 C4 M2 S2 FP2 FP3 in Year 13

    except this year they want to not do S2 so we are doing M3 instead!
  4. IMO it will depend hugely on 3 things
    (i) Which board you site
    (ii) The ability/motivation of pupils
    (iii) How you structure the teaching of your Core units

    Prime example.......Edexcel FP2 reuires a lot of knowledge from the last section of C4 quite early on.....
    Trig identities are a given in FP2 yet appear mid/later in the C3 syllabus.
    IMO for edexcel and better students C1-C4 and 2 applied in Year 12 (which string emphasis on self teaching C1-C2 in their summer holiday) and two applied. Then the further in A2...but again lots of combos
  5. We do: C1, C2, S1 (in A-level lessons) and M1, M2 and FP1 (in FM lessons) then in Year 13 C3, C4 and D1 (in A-level lessons) and FP2, S2, D2 (in FM lessons)
    Best of luck.
  6. pwc9000

    pwc9000 New commenter

    We are are delivering Further Maths for the first time next year.
    We have gone with the same arrangement as whistler above - except I intend to be flexible with the units in Year 13 Further Maths based on the strengths of those doing it.
  7. We do Edexcel:
    C1, C2, S1 in year 12 maths lessons
    FP1, M1, M2, C3 in year 12 further maths lessons and C4 in June/July after the exams
    S2, C3, C4 in year 13 maths (but the further maths students only come to S2 lessons)
    FP2, FP3, D1, D2 in year 13 further maths lessons (but next year we may offer M3 instead of D1)
    Our FM students can usually accept the C1/C2 stuff they need for FP1 and just use it, while they wait to learn it properly in C1/C2 lessons.
    This way most of the further maths students are able to complete 4 full A levels as they only attend a few year 13 maths lessons.
  8. I also think you should do FP1 in year 12. ie FP1 M1 D1. You could skew the teaching so they take say D1 in Jan.
    In year 13 FP2 FP3 M2. Depends on your students but I think its good to send any maths undergraduates off to uni having taken FP3. Again you could skew the teaching so that they do M2 in Jan.

  9. Thank you, this is all really useful
  10. This might be a good time for me to mention that the NRICH Stage 5 team have just updated our Mapping Documents. Core and Further Pure now appear on the same document, with suitable NRICH problems for supporting A level teaching linked to each area of the A level specifications.
    You can download it as a word document from this page and as ever we value any feedback.
  11. Interestingly, we are just about to change so our further mathematciian do C1-4, S1, M1 in year 12, getting an A2, and then the FM modules in Y13. Offering it this way has doubled our numbers of Further Masths students! Of course, we need to be careful tro ensure they can get a decent A2 grade at the end of Y12.
  12. KYP

    KYP New commenter

    ... but is it not the case that some universities are giving offers that are based on 3 ALs achieved at the final sitting? So an A* in achieved in Maths Yr 12 might be ignored, leaving an A required from Further Maths, for example.
  13. ... but won't reclaiming all four qualifications (AS Mathematics, A2 Mathematics, AS Further Mathematics and A2 Further Mathematics) at the end of year 13 will mean they have all been achieved in Year 13?
    We have been advised to "claim" all qualifications (again if necessary) at the end of year 13 to make all modules scores freely available to be combined in the best way by the exam board.
  14. We won't certificate until the end of Y13. As an independent school we don't have to certificate until we want to... I think this may have changed for state schools, but can you imagine the madness of a University rejecting a student with an A* grade in Maths simply because it wasn't gained in Y13. I think 'final sitting' means the end of Y12, in this case.
  15. KYP

    KYP New commenter

    We have a student in precisely that situation. Came to us with an AS Maths Grade A already cashed in from yr 11(so no chance to change combinations of modules), got A* AL Maths in yr 12, and his offer from Cambridge is 3 As, I think, from his yr 13 results.
    But yes, we don't cash in our AS double maths until yr 13, so modules can be combined for the best outcomes. It does mess up ALPs/ALIS scores though!
    However, in terms of doing the complete AL Maths in Yr 12, that's fine if your students are going to get A*/A straight away, but not so good for others if they then need to resit, because of universities not liking resits.IMO the average student doesn't have the maturity/experience to cope with C3 and C4 in yr 12.
  16. This is the trade...maturity Vs the time factor
    On edexcel there is no way you can do FP2 without being able to nail the calculus on C3/4.
    You can arrange all the calculus at the start of y13 but the time elemnt then stacks up again kids doing C3/4 and FP2/3 in y13
    Binomial expansion from C4 can also help FP2 as can trig identities from C3
    I still think c1-4 in y12 with good candidates
  17. mmmmmaths

    mmmmmaths New commenter

    Mmmmmaths junior is doing further maths. C1 and M 1 year 12 January, C 2, C3, C 4, M 2 summer year 12. He is lucky as they are a smallish group all doing FM so no compromises needed.

    He has coasted through school thinking Maths is soooooooooo easy. Having to cram in C3 and C 4 meant that for the first time ever he had to do some work! He has now discovered that it is great working at a Maths question and eventually realising how to do it instead of knowing as soon as you read it that you can do it.
    He does wish he had done more revision though as he messed up a C 3 question and now thinks his A star is at risk.

    Y13 FP modules..........quote" Complex numbers are brilliant; they really mess with my brain"
    M3 and probably S1

    I on the other hand as a teacher will be coping with a year 12 mixed A level / further maths group following C1, C2, M1 whilst the further Maths students have additional lessons for FP and D1 or S1.

    Year 13 all do C 3, C 4, M2. Further have additional lessons for FP and applied courses.

    Financial restrictions unfortunately mean that not all of our students will get the modules in the order that would best suit them or be taught the module for the length of time that would best suit them. We all just do our best!
  18. headofmaths

    headofmaths New commenter

    I've worked with C1, C2, S1 in normal class and M1, M2, FP1 in Further Maths
    then C3, C4, D1 (leave D1 teaching until last) and two of S2/S3/M3 and FP2 or 3 (taught last so most of the relevant C3/4 can be taught by then)

    In my present school we are lucky enough to have a fully separate group for Maths/Further Maths. We have been doing Edexcel A level in a year then Further Maths the following year which works well for the truly able mathematician.
    SLT want us to move to a 2 AS combo leading to 2 A2 in year 13 for all sorts of reasons but we aren't keen to only do C1, C2 and FP1 as we think it will leave too much Pure to yr 13.

    Can we do C1-C3 (AS Pure), FP1, S1, M1 (AS FM) in year 12

    then C4, S2, S3 , FP2, FP3, M2 in year 13 to make up to A level Maths and Further Maths?

    ie does anyone know if it is OK to do AS Pure then A level Maths and if AS Pure and AS FM is allowable???
  19. mmmmmaths

    mmmmmaths New commenter

    Wouldn't this mean that all FM students at the end of Y 13 could cash in and claim AS Pure, AS Maths, A2 pure, A2 Maths, A2 FM?

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