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Full time permanent post - can they reduce my hours to 0.8???

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by pauljon, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. pauljon

    pauljon New commenter

    I am currently working in a full time permanent post in an lea school. Due to the overstaffed school i have been made aware that they may need to reduce teaching time. Can they do this? Would they effectively be making my full time post redundant? Is it legal if they employ tempory teaching posts too? I feel a little lost with all this and stressed to say the least.
  2. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter


    It is possible to make a person partly redundant under certain circumstances.

    You need to get hold of your regional union rep asap to get advice and support over this.

    You and anyone else in school who may be involved.

    Best wishes

  3. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    From my understanding it may well depend on your contract. So you need to check. This is, I believe, only alterable by mutual understanding or it constitutes a breach of contract.
    Hopefully someone with more legal knowledge will be able to offer more help.

    Edit. Theo has given you the answer there and taking Union advice is best.

    Temporary teaching posts are quite usual these days it seems.
  4. pauljon

    pauljon New commenter

    Has anyone else had experience of this?
  5. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    How long have you been at the school? If it is less than two years, then you don't have a lot of rights - they can make you redundant (or even dismiss you) without paying compensation unless you can show that it was due to a protected characteristic. If it is over 2 years, then you do have rights - I am not sure how it works in terms of compensation and I echo the advice of others to consult your union.
  6. pauljon

    pauljon New commenter

    Ill have been there 2years at the end of this year. I assumed a contract was binding no matter how long i had been there. If they make my job redundant they will have to pay redundancy of 13 years so making this financially pointless as they wont be saving any money.
  7. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter


    In which case, as @Piranha says, your contract can be terminated. and you cannot normally claim for unfair dismissal. Basically, no employment in any post, teaching or not, is not truly permanent until you've been there for two years.

    Why 13? You say you've been there 2 years only.

    Best wishes

  8. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter


    Just a doggone minute there, Muskie!

    No, they can't just reduce your contract from full-time to 0.8, unless there is a term to that effect in your contract. To do so would be an attempt to unilaterally vary the terms of your contract, which is a breach. Terms can only be varied by mutual agreement.

    If the school is over-staffed, it must instigate a proper consultation in respect of potential redundancies. It is possible that the offer of suitable alternative work might include reduced duties, with a contract at 0.8. They cannot just cut corners, or they'll have me - or someone like me - writing stroppy 'Ahem!' letters to them!

    13 years? Have you continuous employment amounting to that, even though you have only been at this school for approaching two years?

    Be alert to the very annoying potential employer loophole of dismissal for SOSR for resisting 'reorganisation' in a pseudo-redundancy situation. Ssshhhh...we don't talk about it much on here as it doesn't seem to happen much in teaching yet.

    Talk to your union - and not at school / local level!
  9. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    Damn...I went to edit my post above, to add more and have run out of editing time.

    If you have more than two years’ continuous employment with your employer you will be entitled to a redundancy payment. I have inferred that you have.

    If your job has become redundant, your employer has certain obligations. These obligations include giving or paying you notice, statutory redundancy pay, consultation with you to try and prevent your job disappearing and the consideration and offer if available of suitable alternative employment. If the terms offered differ from the previous contract you are entitled to a statutory trial period of four weeks to decide whether this alternative employment is suitable for you. The key factors of suitability are pay, nature of duties, status, hours and location. If after four weeks you do not find this role suitable you can choose not to accept this role and be made redundant with notice and redundancy pay.

    It's possible you are being unfairly selected in this process.Without knowing the details of all the other employees it is difficult to saywhether this is the case. If you are selected unfairly it could make your redundancy an unfair dismissal, entitling you to make a claim at an Employment Tribunal.

    If not a redundancy situation the other option is that your employer is forcing you without consent to change your contract - the unilateral variation to which I referred above. In a unilateral variation, you have four possible options:

    1. You can simply accept the change
    2. You can refuse to accept the change. You would need to raise a grievance with your employer in writing that you don’t accept this change. Your grievance should be in writing setting out all your complaints he employer would then need to respond to your grievance. If your employer does not uphold your grievance then you could either:
    • resign and claim constructive unfair dismissal (a type of unfair dismissal claim at the Employment Tribunal) on the basis that the employer has fundamentally breached the employment contract; or
      • Alternatively, you could wait and your employer would expect you to accept the change or he will dismiss you for refusing to work under the new regime. You would then be eligible to claim unfair dismissal at the Employment Tribunal. The main concern with waiting to be dismissed is that if you wait too long, there is a risk that you have accepted the changes by doing nothing further and working under the new contract.
    1. You can stay at work, accept the changes “under protest” and sue your employer in the Employment Tribunal or County Court for damages for breach of contract. Again, you would need to raise a grievance with your employer and then if the grievance fails you would claim. The concern with this option is that if you delay in making your claim you may be treated as if you have waived your right and accepted the change. Your employer may still dismiss you, in which case you would have an unfair dismissal claim at the Employment Tribunal.
    2. You can resign or stay and bring a claim under s23 of the ERA for an unlawful deduction of your wages without your consent.
    So NOW Talk to your Union!! :D
  10. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter


    Not sure about that . . it doesn't seem very clear.

    Best wishes

  11. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    No, it's not clear - but I have asked the question in the first post, of whether the poster's 13 years may have derived from continuous employment. It may have done, even if time in the current school is not yet two years.
  12. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    @pauljon Have you been advised by your union on what your LA redundancy scheme says? Mine only pays statutory redundancy pay which isn't a lot. eg with 13 years service if you are under 41 statutory redundancy pay is £6,175. It goes up if you are older but still wouldn't exceed £9,263 (although I think that's tax free).

    So from school's point of view the redundancy pay would be covered by reducing the post to 0.8 in less than a year. And depending on the LA scheme statutory redundancy costs might be borne by the LA centrally and not charged to the school's budget.

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