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Formal Capability

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by gwilleysingh, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. renegade29

    renegade29 New commenter

    Genuine support, surely, doesn't require an ultimate end date whereby you can be deemed incapable of improvement and be sacked.
     
    ridleyrumpus likes this.
  2. install

    install Star commenter

    Not if you have Union backing.

    There are some nasty hts out there. Advice suggesting you don't challenge a capability proceeding is shockingly bad in my experience. :cool:
     
    ridleyrumpus likes this.
  3. renegade29

    renegade29 New commenter

    I meant that the person under the spotlight should be hitting that eject button; not fighting an unwinnable contest.
     
  4. install

    install Star commenter

    'Genuine support' is debateable in some schools - hence the reason why it is perfectly reasonable to involve the Union. Some hts panic when Unions are involved because they don't expect challenges from staff they wrongly deem as a 'walk over' . The Union will of course check too that all processes have been followed fairly and that staff are not being targeted:cool:
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  5. install

    install Star commenter

    And that is 'blinkered' in my experience. Far better to fight, get better and have a 'parachute' into a better school ready just in case...

    There is not always a need for a 'run and hide' mentality when you are in the right and have Union backing :cool:
     
  6. serenitypolly41

    serenitypolly41 Occasional commenter

    Following on from what install said about some schools panicking about union involvement. Could a school decide to not give someone a reference if they get wind that the employee has turned to the union for help?

    Can union involvement makes things worse no matter what the issue is?
     
  7. renegade29

    renegade29 New commenter


    The sense I get from reading relevant posts on here suggests the Unions are not prepared to fight each case on it's individual merrit but would rather encourage their clients to accept a decent settlement agreement and move on.

    For the sake of the teacher's sanity I can see why.

    Ultimately though, this leads to a trend which enables the process. HT's already know the worst case scenario and the whole thing becomes an unofficial route somewhat like a redundancy package.
     
  8. install

    install Star commenter

    Not in my experience.

    Unions do fight and represent very well. Some teachers opt to also fight and challenge and get better...and win. They then leave and go where they will be treated better.

    Some dodgy hts/ceos do try to intimidate some of their staff sadly :cool:
     
  9. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    I personally think fighting capability is crazy. The mere fact you have been put on it (even if you ARE 'failing' which may or may not be the case) would be enough to sour my mental relationship to my employer to the point of not wanting to work there anymore.
    Best advice is to ask for an Easter resignation and whether this will kill off the procedure. And then get looking and applying for jobs. Surely a better way to enter 2019 than knowing you are on capability when you return as you eat Christmas dinner!
     
  10. install

    install Star commenter

    Not if your ht is wrong and is using intimidation tactics. Some hts thrive on no one challenging them but crumble the moment the teacher ( via the Union) questions their processes and their systems :cool:
     
    Mrsmumbles likes this.
  11. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Install, I think that the key word here is "formal".

    I left when even the possibility of a support plan, which is "informal" was raised, because I knew full well that my card had been marked.

    I have never heard anybody successfully remain in a school after it became "formal".

    I can see people fighting informal, but at the formal stage, there is a huge risk that you may lose your struggle after all, be dismissed and find it very hard to work as a teacher ever again.
     
  12. install

    install Star commenter

    I have and know people who challenged and won in 2 different schools. They still work there. Their hts do not though.

    I think you may not have come across schools with strong Union membership or dodgy hts. The key word may be 'formal' - but don't let that fool you into thinking that it is therefore always right, fair, consistent, appropriate and supportive.

    A school where there may be several informal and formal support plans flying about year after year on a regular basis may tell its own tale ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  13. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Of course I went to my union. Like a lot of people, I knew what it was all about. I had no desire to work for those people ever again at that point, so for my own sanity I decided to get out, as I could have been shafted further down the line.

    I do not think for a single second that 99% of this epidemic of capabilities is about being consistent or supportive. It is a national scandal.

    However, all I am saying is that at any stage in the proceedings you have to balance pragmatism with idealism. Ideally we could fight and win, but the further down the line towards formal the process gets, it becomes realistically less likely to win - and also to win without being mentally tortured by the whole process.
     
  14. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    In my experience, if the school have not followed their own policies correctly and this is brought to their attention by the Union the school pretty much "oh well, what are you going to do about it" which then means you have three months less a day to go to ACAS/Tribunal and in many cases this may be counterproductive for what the worker wants as an end goal.
     
  15. install

    install Star commenter

    Agreed in part.

    Although those that win do not seek admiration. They just 'know' they are right and with support from other teachers and their Union they 'challenge' a wrong. Yes it is stressful, yes it isn't nice but that it is sometimes sadly the intention of some dodgy hts.
     
  16. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Only if the members do not support the Union and their colleagues.
     
    install likes this.
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    Not in my experience.

    I have witnessed HoGs support teachers against the ht in the event of weak processes,.poor practice and faulty policies and systems. :cool:
     
    Mrsmumbles likes this.
  18. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    No.
    And in situations where you need to negotiate an exit outside of usual resignation dates, unions are essential. Without their legal support, you need to pay an employment lawyer.
     
  19. install

    install Star commenter

    Union involvement at this point may depend how good the Union is. A Union is there to support its members though and may be aware of a striking issue that has not yet been raised.
     
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Totally this.

    The OP has presumably already been through a support plan or informal stages, whatever their school calls that part. They ave been through stage 1 of formal capability, whatever that means in their school. At stage two it must surely be very close to the point of dismissal and so leaving before that is essential to continue to work in teaching, but even at this point it will be tricky. Formal capability is on a reference.

    However, sticking with pragmatism, if the union are involved and yet it has still continued to this point, the OP's days in teaching are probably numbered.
     
    agathamorse likes this.

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