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Forced videoing

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by TianLing10, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. TianLing10

    TianLing10 New commenter

    can a school force you to be videoed teaching for a whole lesson against your will? Who owns such videos. Who is allowed to have access to them? Who controls them?
    tall tales likes this.
  2. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Huge data protection issues here. Pretty sure that if you don't give permission they can't do it. Speak to your union.
    pepper5, agathamorse and FrankWolley like this.
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Agree 100% with amysdad...
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  4. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    The school will own the videos precisely because that is the easiest way to ensure that it maintains full control for Safeguarding and Data Protection. There will be a paragraph in a policy somewhere that clearly states no photo (or recording) of pupils may be taken apart from on school cameras. or similar. I bet all readers of this post will forget this advice by the next prom or school trip but one day it could turn around and bite you.
    The same policy will state who can access these videos and it's a simple matter in ICT terms to give varying access to different staff.
    Errmm…. not that clear-cut.
    • Have you, along with all other staff, 'volunteered' for this?
    • Is there a policy in place that can allow it? Especially as there'll be something in Performance Management about maintaining high standards.
    • Are you the lone voice crying in the wilderness? Are other staff prepared to take action over this?
    I say 'take action' meaning that the staff need to hold a meeting and then instruct the rep to point out to the Head that this is a step too far. Will they do it or roll over? If there's no rep are you prepared to step up and do it? The only other alternative is to look for work elsewhere which is an argument that any HT could appreciate.
    Rott Weiler and agathamorse like this.
  5. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    The problem with videoed lessons is down to the basic paranoia over this message being generated and sent to SLT.

    "INSUFFICIENT PROGRESS in Room C8. Capability team to meet with MR CAZORLA asap...…"

    It takes a lot of trust between SLT and staff to stop that image coming to my mind and I've never been in a school that can afford (or wanted) cameras in classrooms.

    At least with CCTV senior staff don't need to venture out into the wild.
    Rott Weiler, pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  6. IanG

    IanG Occasional commenter

    The first time I came across videoing of lessons (IRIS) it was very much pushed by SLT and staff were required to have at least one lesson videoed and then reviewed within 7 days with HOD. We never ‘owned’ it or had further access to the recordings, but this was about 10 years ago. The second time was 5 years ago when staff were ‘encouraged’ to use it for evidence for professional development. The recording sat on the school system and could only be accessed by the teacher and could be removed with a simple click…..at least that’s what we were told!

    Can you be forced into having a lesson videoed? I’m unsure, but SLT could certainly make things difficult if your refuse. Union best bet for advice.
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  7. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Unless you have given permission for your image to be used I do not think that this can be done, same as a student refusing permission to be videoed.

    I know that when I was told to video my lessons the number of complaints from parents and students was horrendous.

    The school had not informed the parents/students that this may happen for training purposes.*

    *I was put onto a support plan because of the number of complaints I was receiving.......:confused:
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  8. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    This isn't comparing like with like. You are an employee and under certain conditions of employment which can easily include being videoed as part of your job. If you had the pleasure of working at Amazon in the warehouse you would certainly be videoed as management believe you'll walk out with a laptop otherwise.

    More importantly Safeguarding isn't applicable to you that's for the little cherubs.
    harsh-but-fair likes this.
  9. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Not even with GDPR?
    agathamorse likes this.
  10. BioEm

    BioEm Occasional commenter

    I’m pretty sure GDPR means that any employee being videoed in an identifying way (as it’s biometric data) would have to give permission. Students too. I guess you could have something covering that in contracts and pupil agreements but anyone who joined the school before GDPR came into play probably wouldn’t have that yet.

    In regards to Unions, we were very worry about IRIS being enforced so we worked with SLT to get some guidelines set in place. Here’s a link that might be helpful that we used to do that: https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/238ce9a8-85ed-4c6b-916ed4d3c6bffdfe.pdf
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  11. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    GDPR isn't relevant as the school already holds a lot of sensitive information about you anyway. It would only apply if the video was played outside the school intranet, in the same way that bank details and criminal records are fine under GDPR because they are only accessible to certain staff and security protocols ensure that group is kept to a minimum.
    harsh-but-fair likes this.
  12. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Culturally/religiously speaking, the act of capturing your own image may be reviled for certain reasons.
    There are places in the world where reproducing your own image is almost blasphemous in times of, for example, mourning, menstruation, when not in your best clothes, when looking directly at the camera, when photographed by somebody younger, on religious days, when fasting. Whatever.
    Please don't anybody respond with "how ridiculous" because I'm not forwarding it for discussion, I'm just stating a genuine discomfort that many people around the world may feel on begin photographed. Including some school staff.
    Therefore for a school to insist on photographing or videoing of staff and then to declare that refusal to allow that is breaching contract (as you could get by extrapolation from the OP) is actually pretty ignorant and probably discriminatory, and I don't mean that in a "embrace my outrageousness 2018" sort of way, I mean it in a worldly wise sort of way.
  13. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Just because an organisation holds information on you it does not mean that it has the right to process any information on you that it likes, nor does it have the right to use the information for any other purpose that it has been granted permission.

    For instance, if you have agreed to sign in to school so that a register can be kept about who is on site for safety reasons it would be wrong for the school to use that information to monitor the times you came into school and left for possible disciplinary purposes.

    It does not matter if the information is only available on the Intranet or even just held on the servers, it is the processing of the information that is key.
    agathamorse and BioEm like this.
  14. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    you're certainly correct in a moral and ethical way and I absolutely agree with you. However there are plenty of SLT who follow the maxim, "If I can get away with it, it's ethical" and to fight it as a union rep, which I seem to remember you were (are?), then you either need specific legal references or strong backing from the members. The latter is problematical so it comes down to what policies and employment law may have to say on the matter.
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Any school forcing a teacher to do this is not one I'd like to work for.
    blazer and agathamorse like this.
  16. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    agathamorse and BioEm like this.
  17. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    It is in the GDPR legislation:-

    The GDPR defines Consent in Article 4(11) as:

    ‘consent’ of the data subject means any freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject’s wishes by which he or she, by a statement or by a clear affirmative action, signifies agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her;"

    Article 6(1) of the GDPR sets out the conditions the must be met for the processing of personal data to be lawful. They are:

    “In order for processing to be lawful, personal data should be processed on the basis of the consent of the data subject concerned or some other legitimate basis… Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies.
    – The data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data for one or more specific purposes;
    – Processing is necessary for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is party or in order to take steps at the request of the data subject prior to entering into a contract;
    – Processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation to which the controller is subject;
    – Processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject or of another natural person;
    – Processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority vested in the controller;
    – Processing is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the controller or by a third party, except where such interests are overridden by the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject…”

    What GDPR says
    – collected for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes;

    JohnJCazorla, agathamorse and BioEm like this.
  18. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    My school is in a contract for the IRIS system. All teachers have been encouraged to use it, even had a specific CPD session on its use.

    Last year I checked how many times it had been booked out, 2 1hr sessions back to back in 6 months. I suspect that the first hour was to set it up.

    So that means one 1Hr session in 6 months.

    Cost? For us about £5000 per year.


    I tried to make the point that for that we could have had something like Classcharts which would lower the teachers workload and benefit every teacher, everyday.

    Basically, I was told, "but look it is shiny!"
    JohnJCazorla, agathamorse and BioEm like this.
  19. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    Some discussion on this on Edugeek. Many comments similar to @ridleyrumpus but also a few saying how well it worked for staff development. I think that's the point: if used for development rather than as the OP sees it, a threat, it might be good.
  20. BioEm

    BioEm Occasional commenter

    I think if you have supportive senior management then it probably can be used positively, but it needs to be done in collaboration with everyone involved. Some people just won’t want to be filmed and that should be fine.

    One of the reasons the unions got involved to make a policy at my old place was because of an over-zealous member of senior management (the same one who decided IRIS was worth spending money on). She ended up putting ‘use IRIS in your lessons’ as a target for every person she did a lesson observation with, often without discussing it with them first. That was not on.

    Last time we chatted on here about IRIS we suddenly had an influx of new commenters who loved it and championed it, which was amusing and nothing to do with someone working for the company trying to promote a very expensive system I’m sure

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