1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Firefighters judgement

Discussion in 'Retirement' started by heldon, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. heldon

    heldon Occasional commenter

  2. mjfp509

    mjfp509 New commenter

    Saw this earlier on. Good news for them and I do hope it filters through to teachers, but the skeptical me says I very much doubt it.
    jlishman2158 and FrankWolley like this.
  3. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    You'd think that the NEU & NASUWT would have seen this, and be making the necessary approaches.
    jlishman2158 and tall tales like this.
  4. Prim

    Prim Occasional commenter

    Perhaps we need to send these links to the relevant unions. All of this makes sense and should be fairly applied to all who have had their pensions reduced under this new scheme. Fingers crossed.
  5. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    It says; " ...detailed evidence we provided about the specific nature of firefighters’ work... " Doesn't sound like the case bares close comparison to us.
  6. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Indeed. Nobody is going to believe how exhausting and draining teaching can be and a teacher's job is not going to compare to putting yourself in actual physical danger in a fire.
    jlishman2158 and Dorsetdreams like this.
  7. heldon

    heldon Occasional commenter

    Same "age discrimination" judgement for judges.
    jlishman2158 likes this.
  8. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    I spotted that, too.

    However, I also note here:


    There are certainly more female teachers than male.
    jlishman2158 and Startedin82 like this.
  9. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

  10. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    It's definitely on TPS's radar:

    https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Teachers’ Pensions - Stephen Fry.pdf

    Page 9:

    In other words, it's okay to save money by altering a pension scheme, but that has to be proportionate, and should not compromise the rights of protected groups (gender being on).
    jlishman2158 and strawbs like this.
  11. mjfp509

    mjfp509 New commenter

  12. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Do any of our legal bods know if any future government change will be retrospective?

    In other words, if I retire in 2 years, and the rules are changed in 3, will my pension be adjusted?
    Startedin82 likes this.
  13. paulstevenjones

    paulstevenjones New commenter

    Whilst I’d be delighted if this did happen, I think the chances are extremely slim indeed. The bill is enormous and there’d be a public outcry, no appetite amongst general population for feathering the already supposedly cushy retirement nests of public sector workers. It’s not a realistic proposal and we’re heading for financial meltdown with Brexit so the government will definitely dodge this bullet somehow.
    Startedin82 likes this.
  14. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Fortunately, in a proper democracy, that’s not how things work.

    There are any number of things governments don’t want to do but which courts have forced on them.

    Ultimately, they’re bothered about the long-term bill spiralling. They’ll think of a new way, but it’ll only apply for the point in time they come up with it. A 5 or 10 year delay will mean little in the long term.
  15. paulstevenjones

    paulstevenjones New commenter

    Well of course I hope you’re right and I’m not. But democracy involving huge bills to the government is very thin on the ground in the UK sometimes (look at repayments for people on dla etc) and I cannot see this happening.
    jlishman2158 likes this.
  16. sci

    sci New commenter

    I was going to quote the 'proportionality' comment as well- Thank you Peter Quint. From reading the documents it appears all tapered members will be affected by this ruling.
    PeterQuint likes this.
  17. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Question 1 - When is the appeal and how long is it likely to take?

    Question 2 - Specifically, what will it mean, and for whom?

    At the moment, and I may be wrong, it looks to me like anyone who’s been in both schemes (final and average salary), will have their pension altered/revalued/returned to being just in final salary. Have I got that right?
  18. Prim

    Prim Occasional commenter

    I've forwarded all of the info to my union (NAS) would be useful if we all did the same. Let's hope it is taken forward.
    PeterQuint likes this.
  19. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Right, here's a strange thing. Some people aren't happy.



    It's difficult to figure out what's going on. What it seems to say (and I could be wrong), is that when pensions were reorganized in 2015 the government promised to re-value the cost every year so that, if the cost didn't increase as much as expected, they'd reduce contributions, or improve the pension.

    Pension costs haven't increased as much as expected due to life expectancy stalling, and overall costs not increasing as much as forecast. Therefore contributions should decrease. The government have halted the latest valuation, as they might need that money to pay for this change.

    At least that's how I read it.

    If this happens it'll not effect me too badly, as I only have a few years left to pay in, then the rest of my life for the scheme to pay out. But younger members will suffer.

    Anyone care to comment?
  20. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    Interesting reading, PeterQuint, thanks. On an earlier thread, someone linked to an article suggesting that benefits would need to go up for 'career average' members, because scheme receipts exceed requirements. This would have happened by being a bit more generous in the variable above CPI annual uplift to the accumulated service. This would have had little or no effect for us on mainly 'final salary' pensions and no significant effect on anyone for several years, so I agree with your conclusion.

    I wonder what might happen to us transferred members if the fire-fighters win. I doubt that we would be put back on the final salary scheme, but maybe some calculation and compensation for what we have lost?
    Prim and PeterQuint like this.

Share This Page