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Finally hit the 30 mark

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by rmcwil, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. rmcwil

    rmcwil New commenter

    Yep that's right, my Design Technology KS3 classes have finally hit 30 pupils per class.
    imagine 30 pupils with tools and machinery!
    over the year it has crept up from 21 to 23 then up a bit more, now its 30.
    I was told this morning to " Make it work".
    pepper5 likes this.
  2. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I'm assuming you have half (or whatever) doing practical and the rest working on design?
    patternandsurface likes this.
  3. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    Health and Safety?? Accident waiting to happen?
    I would feel inclined to answer "No. You make it work" and find a job elsewhere.
  4. rmcwil

    rmcwil New commenter

    no technician so have to somehow leave some in one room whilst I observe practical in another. Or , throw away all tools and do graphics
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  5. hs9981

    hs9981 Lead commenter

    freckle06 likes this.
  6. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I'm afraid you answered your own question. :(


    Coz I just know that, if I wanted to do DT, I'd be perfectly happy to doodle or do some pretty computer graphics. Who really wants to do anything with their actual hands or produce something that isn't virtual? Is that even a thing any more? :rolleyes:

    Great way to motivate kids and provide opportunities.

    Next stop? Instead of PE outside? PlayStation FIFA 2022. Sell the field!

    Oops, we already did that. :rolleyes:o_O:(
    steely1, Alice K, pepper5 and 5 others like this.
  7. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    I would say you need to do risk assessment to highlight the issues and ensure the SLT have a copy and ask them to assist you with it.
  8. aypi

    aypi Senior commenter

    Come to Bonnie Scotland. 20 max in a practical room. Even a class of 20 is absolutely a flat out affair for the teacher.
  9. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I have KS3 Science groups of 32 - too many kids in a lab

    I have had groups of 35 before now.
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  10. Ex-teacher

    Ex-teacher Occasional commenter

    Without trying to be a smarta**e, make sure your union subs are paid up, just incase.

    As part of your argument, look in the latest B.S. document for d+t (B.S. xxxx;2014 ) . There is a section in that that gives recommended group sizes for the size of room. It is only recommended, unfortunately. Data also offer advise on the risk assessment you should do.

    When my groups got too big (bearing in mind my group shouldn't, according to the B.S. have had more than 13 in it!) I emailed leadership raising my concerns, saying that I could continue to do my best to keep the students safe, but that due to class sizes I couldn't guarantee that accidents, however minor, wouldn't happen.

    Doing half graphics, half practical sort of worked, and I was praised in an observation for my guided learning for the graphics half (I had shown them what do do, and they got on with It, helping themselves!), but i could keep them in the same room. It did take some setting up, with almost 2 lessons happening at the same time.
    Good luck!
  11. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Star commenter

    Mr GW was teaching DT 30 per class and he's been retired 10 years. He was told at the time that 25% of the kids ,never turned up anyway so he wouldn't have to actually teach 30. Of course they did all turn up didn't they ? He quit after two terms .
    saluki and agathamorse like this.
  12. hhhh

    hhhh Star commenter

    I suppose that cancelling all the consultants who come in to tell you that it's your fault that your pupils are failing because you're marking in the wrong shade of pink-and using the money saved to employ an extra teacher-isn't a possible solution?
    Alice K, les25paul, Bumptious and 3 others like this.
  13. mrswallow

    mrswallow Occasional commenter

    Or, like Scotland but further away.. NZ is screaming out for qualified DT teachers.. not sure the max class size though.
  14. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Lead commenter

    Sadly, i see this all the time from my poor colleagues south of the border, they tried pulling this up here at a school i was at, teachers just flatly refused and threatened union and SMT backed down very quickly, Its amazing how much of a Wild West schools are in rUK, its criminal when i read of what teachers are expected to do in MAT and independent/free schools - i certainly wouldn't
    Alice K and grumpydogwoman like this.
  15. Over_the_hill

    Over_the_hill Star commenter

    We need Mike’s advice on this!
  16. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    LOL A blast from the past! ;):D
  17. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    I would do what saluki said in post 3.

    It is insanity to have 30 students in a D & T class without another adult in the room or even with support.

    Just to tell you "to make it work" is an insult.
    Alice K likes this.
  18. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

    Make sure you have your safety concerns bluntly in writing and keep a copy at home, using phrases like ‘accident waiting to happen’, ‘cannot supervise this number of students safely’, ‘impossible to supervise all students safely’ etc. Then do your best.
    pepper5 likes this.
  19. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    @rmcwil: What is the betting that, should an accident happen in your DT class, whoever told you to, "Make it work!", will be the first one to censure for 'not bringing this to their attention earlier', or reminds you of how often they warned you about the size of your class'.
  20. ityac54321

    ityac54321 New commenter

    That is just madness without a technician!! Complain that it is a health and safety issue, does the art dept have a technician you can use whilst these lessons are going ahead? It’s no wonder resistant materials and the teaching of technology in schools is declining as it’s just not safe enough to have x30 doing a practical. I know as I did wood technology myself and am an art teacher. You may have to do more technical drawing or model making with card or balsa wood which will be safer and more easier to manage but that isn’t fair!

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