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Ever had to exclude a student? An MP wants to hear about your experience

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by HouseOfCommons, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    Thing is, many badly behaved children would magically improve if the head were constantly looking over their shoulder. But then that would solve the problem!
    Just the minor problem of the other badly behaved children and all the other things heads do.
    blazer likes this.
  2. Mad max

    Mad max New commenter

    I have seen students excluded and also the poor behaviour of kids blamed onto the teacher. Independent schools are worse. Can do what ever they like. But a general rant here. We need more funding going into schools. As a very supposedly shortage subject I can't find a long term job as an experienced teacher. Just 1 year or less contracts in favour of cheaper NQT's. This is the point exactly. More funding, more experienced teachers and all generally being supported and not just thrown out for something a lot of the time is beyond the teachers control. It's disgusting.

    Once teachers are trusted more and more funding given I'm sure exclusions will reduce as more support which some pupils richly deserve will be received. In real term funding has been cut to the point where curriculums have been reduced and non qualified teachers/TA without the appropriate qualifications are teaching classes all for the sake of cost cutting. Disgusting. The conservatives have never liked public servants like police, health teachers etc. We don't earn enough tax for them.

    The richest get rich while the rest get poorer. Exclusions are just 1 example of the myriad of crisis problems in teaching with fake promises given to those going into the career . Discrimination of races, age and sex is still excessively rife in the recruiting teachers. You need to help. There should be more done. I have faced racism ageism etc so much in teaching and it's not fair for a quality teacher with near 20 years to experience this and have there life and job with expectations and aims to be met made almost impossible which is nothing to do with there quality as a teacher. This government do not care. You need to help more in particular the older teachers who are being chased out or being left unemployable. Disgusting filthy behaviour from the government and the way they have let this carry on. I will not vote conservative.
  3. Mad max

    Mad max New commenter

    PS more lip service from this minister. Shameful. Talk is cheap.
  4. hs9981

    hs9981 Established commenter

    It's in the Burgundy Book.
  5. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    I have responded to the survey link in the OP.

    The questions appear to be very much directed towards those who consider exclusions to be a negative action!
    FriarLawrence likes this.
  6. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    I've had just one permanent exclusion and probably the best thing I have done, for the staff, the rest of the children in the class and the pupil herself. She spent 3 months in a PRU, which she loved, before moving onto a mainstream secondary. ( Unfortunately she lasted just one term there before being excluded again!)
    Curae likes this.
  7. FriarLawrence

    FriarLawrence Occasional commenter


    However, senior leaders and HoYs very often have significant input into these decisions. As an assistant head, I have been part of the process of several exclusions. All involved either pretty extreme violence, or other criminal activity.

    The simple fact is that, when a child has committed an significant act of violence (or brought drugs onto site, or a weapon), there should be no question that they forfeit their school place. The safety of 1000+ children is more important than the inclusion of one.

    I have worked in schools where the head has been extremely gun-shy when it comes to exclusion. The result has always been disaster: the students know there is no ultimate sanction, and do what they want.

    Government needs to radically improve provision for excluded children, but exclusion is - IMV - an essential tool in the effective running of any school. It should only ever be applied as a last resort, of course, and the evidence base should be watertight. The appeals process should be effective and rigorous. But every child I've ever known be PXd has richly deserved their exclusion, and the school has always been better for it.

    Off-rolling for results/league-tables reasons isn't something I've seen first hand, I'm glad to say. That practice is beneath contempt.
    sbkrobson likes this.
  8. onelittleislandboy

    onelittleislandboy New commenter

    I work at an international school now but was a Head of a Primary School in West London. I only once had to permanently exclude a Year 5 child, after a process which took over a year of talking to parents and social services regarding poor behaviour. The final straw came when he brought a sharpened screwdriver in to school and held it against a year 3 girls neck. I felt we had tried our hardest but our only alternative was to exclude as the year 3 girl was too scared to return while he was there.
  9. mothorchid

    mothorchid Star commenter

    I've never been important enough in schools to exclude anyone. But I have worked in a school where a number of students were suddenly excluded just ahead of an expected Ofsted inspection. And also a number were excluded just before the date when their exam entries were to be confirmed.
    Funny, that...
  10. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    Yes, but in certain cases, a teacher can bring pressure on a HT to follow the rules and exclude a pupil, whereas a teacher could advise the pupil not be excluded.
  11. HouseOfCommons

    HouseOfCommons New commenter

    Hi all, thanks very much for your responses to this post. These have been passed on to the MP who will use them to inform her debate on Wednesday. Thanks too for your feedback and guidance on where to post in the forum for these kinds of topics.

    From Sarah Jones MP: “Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute. Your responses reflect a broad range of issues across the country. You’ll be able to watch the debate and read the transcript by following the links which will be added to this post.

    Because of the huge volume of responses [across Facebook, Parliament's private survey and TES] I won't be able to mention everyone in the debate, however I will make sure that they are all passed on to the Minister to review. Thank you again.”

    The debate will start at 9.30am tomorrow. We'll post links to watch it and read the transcript on this thread.

    Please take a moment to fill in our two-question survey about this activity: https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/YVAA1/
  12. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Well it bugs me that you have thanked for the advice on where to post "these kinds of topics" when that was not the advice. The advice was that this one specific topic which is now going to be discussed in the HoC is only directly answerable by HTs.
    That advice has been roundly ignored, and we are now told that the miscellany of responses given here and on Facebook will be used to "inform" debate.

    Basically those practitioners who are the only ones who actually deliver the process of exclusion have not been asked, have they? Exclusion numbers are a direct result of Headteacher decision, and yet you have simply collated a load of chit chat about a myriad of circumstances leading up to it.

    This is how to sideline Headteachers, leaving them with the usual world of answerability yet devoid of any say . Well done. It's the same as that old chestnut "what should we do about schools?" question, answered by a general public who have nothing to do with schools whatsoever.
    More garden fence chatterboxing in the House of Commons.

    O, hang on...you've gone.
    Sundaytrekker likes this.
  13. Oss54

    Oss54 New commenter

    Schools need much, much, much, much more funding. Stop cutting schools to the bone. Huge classes rise to poor behaviour and teachers unable to cope. Cuts to funding lead to the loss of TAs and experienced teachers because although they have brilliant skills, they are too expensive and are forced out and of course the very people who could work with children under threat of being excluded - the pastoral support staff, are the first to go when cuts are made. Schools are under incredible stress and all those ridiculous tests just add to that stress. Stressed staff then have to deal with children who have their own difficulties and act out because of them. MPs need a good dose of reality; give schools the funds they deserve; trust teachers to teach; make sure that all schools have the necessary support staff and that will lead to less children being excluded.
  14. HouseOfCommons

    HouseOfCommons New commenter

    The debate went ahead this morning and saw contributions from across the political parties. It was answered by Nick Gibb, the Minister for School Standards, who gave the Government's position on the issue.

    You can read a transcript on Hansard, or watch the debate on our Facebook page. The post features a video of Sarah Jones thanking contributors for all their comments.

    Here's a clip which you may find interesting: an exchange between former teacher Jonathan Gullis - the new MP for Stoke on Trent North - and Sarah Jones on the importance of school exclusions:

    The House of Commons Library have written a briefing which sets out current policy on school exclusions, statistical information, recent parliamentary proceedings, and related research and news. It mostly relates to England, but also includes some statistical and other information on Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Thank you again for your interest in this debate. Please take a moment to fill in our two-question survey about this activity.
  15. Flanks

    Flanks Senior commenter

    Perversely I think the opposite is true.

    Doing away with early years funding, surestart etc, and replacing it with pupil premium (giving money to schools) was a massive creation of issues which are now filtering in to secondary schools. The problem is categorically not direct school funding, but rather that all the services which used to support families around schools have disappeared leaving schools to hold all the risk themselves with no support.
    katykook likes this.

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