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Discussion in 'Personal' started by circuskevin, Sep 18, 2019.
Have been stopped twice. Once when on an Animal Rights protest in Oxford - a bit annoying, but perfectly legal. Secondly when I was jogging at about 2:00am in the morning around the town I live. Ironically was running to get fit to pass the police fitness test as I was planning to join (which I subsequently did for 5 years). I'm pretty glad the police are out and about checking up on what's going on.
Jogging at 2am - you must be fit.
I'm afraid it's you who are wrong. There is no crime of gardening naked. The police guidelines are very clear. If they receive a complaint from someone that their neighbour is gardening naked they are supposed to tell the person that no crime has been committed and that they will be taking no further action. Indeed, the complainant may themselves have committed a crime of intruding on a person's reasonable privacy, by looking into their garden. It doesn't matter if the person doesn't like seeing a man's bits any more than it matters of a person doesn't like their neighbours choice of plants or the variety of apple they've chosen to grow. In fact there is no crime of nakedness at all in this country. As long as you haven't set out with the deliberate intent to offend then you can be naked wherever your like.
I was witness to a crime and gave a statement to the police. It was written up by their officer in language that was so different from what I had said, and so badly worded, that some of it meant the opposite of what I had actually said. I have never received a communication from the police that didn't contain at least several punctuation and spelling mistakes. Ever.
Recently I photographed a police car parked on double yellow lines. The driver came out of Tesco carrying his shopping. The police station, with plenty of parking spaces is next door to Tesco. The police do themselves no favours by acting like this.
My car was rammed by a poice car when it was legally parked in a private car park. The driver got out, swore, and drove off. I had to get my own statements from a witness (15 yrs old) before the police got to him. They had already spoken to the other witness (15 yrs old) and his father said that he was too frightened to make a statement, even for my insurance company.
I do not believe that. Which statutory crime or common law criminal offence would I be prosecuted for if I look into someone's garden?
No I'm afraid I'm not wrong just because you'd like me to be. Being naked in your garden could amount to a breach of section 5 of the 1986 Public Order Act - disorderly behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress, and yes being naked in public view (including in your garden) could well amount to 'disorderly' in the way the law was constructed.
Potentially behaviour could also amount to offences under common law in terms of public decency or public nuisance, or if viewed as a deliberate exposure aimed at someone, then an offence under the Sexual Offences Act of 2003 (although in all three of these latter offences I think you'd need more aggravating features than merely gardening... although potentially not if previous complaints had been made & were being ignored).
I don't know where you think you have got hold of these police guidelines. Being naked is certainly not an offence, but the context it is done in can make it so.
Clearly you've had a bad experience with the police on one or two occasions. But I think you'd find that the overwhelming majority are doing the best job they can often in difficult circumstances. I had a teacher in the same department I worked in suspended from teaching quite rightly for telling anti-Semitic 'jokes' and discussing his sex life with classes etc. No-one should judge the teaching profession on one or two bad apples, nor equally stereotype the 123,000 police officers in the UK for a bad experience.
In the cases you list above, in the first, they are simply doing their job, in the second it's a poorly worded statement and in the third a potentially annoying parking offence. I only went to the supermarket once in a police car in my 5 years, when the shift bought supper for some illegal migrants we found freezing in the back of a lorry and who we reckoned needed a decent meal. Also if we committed driving offences in police cars e.g. speeding, the law was very plain that we'd be prosecuted like anyone else (unless it was an emergency call).
And yes police officers should be professional at all times, but I'll admit I lost my cool with a driver once who was complaining bitterly to me about being held up by a road accident. 5 minutes earlier I'd been trying to do CPR on the motorcyclist involved in that RTA before the ambulance arrived, and watching him die. Having to tell a mother her daughter was dead, or seeing a drowned toddler stretched out on a mortuary slab doesn't compare to anything I now have to do as a teacher. And just as teachers I think lack help and support for stress & workload pressures, so there is no help for police dealing with very difficult incidents on a weekly basis - 1 in 5 of whom are suffering with PTSD according to a recent report.
The police guidelines are freely available. I don't know when you were a police officer but the law regarding public nudity has been very much clarified in the last few years. There is no offence of public nudity even if you'd like there to be one. Anyone could be fitted up for the crimes you suggest, but being naked in your own garden, or in fact any public place, is not a crime. The fact that you, along with apparently a lot of police officers, don't know this isn't really something to be proud of. Why don't you search for the police guidelines? They're easy enough to find. Or if I have time I'll do you a link.
My experience of the police in the last two years has been woeful. I'm sure lots of police do a good job but if they were better organised and better informed they could save a heck of a lot of time and then not be so hard pressed to do their jobs better. I brought my children up to see the police as people who help us. Personal experience has unfortunately completely changed that view.
Search 'police college naked guidelines'. It's a pdf. It's the top result.
Some kinds of looking with intent to invade privacy, apparently, according to our solicitor. Peeping Tom type of thing. We didn't follow it up, because unlike our neighbours we tolerate all kinds of weird behaviour!
I was stopped barely able to ride my bike after drinking cocktails when I was about 30 because it was Christmas which completely 'does my head in' as they say, every year, without fail however much I try to tell myself it won't...
I was shocked the policeman could tell I was in such a state. Of course it was back in the dark ages when policeman walked the streets. Today I would've just been run over I'm sure.
I got off my bike and wheeled it round a corner, got on again and wobbled straight into a fence managing to just save myself.
Fortunately I stopped drinking years ago realising the complete pointlessness of it!
Just testing the multi-quote function
Yes. When Mr Dunty and I were courting. We were parked down a dark country lane.
Headlights behind us. I thought we were going to be murdered...
Torch shone into car. "This is a class area".
The shame. But we were fully dressed.
Voyeurism ('Peeping Tom') offences don't arise from "invading privacy" as such but from the voyeur doing it for their own sexual gratification. Nothing to do with the situation being discussed here. A casual reader of your post might conclude you can be arrested for looking into someone else's garden. You can't.
Brilliant. After another 60+ hr week, with a weekend marking load of dozens more essays to do in my 'best English', in a post on an informal forum I failed to double check my there and their. Completely proves all police officers are idiots. As presumably are teachers, if I am one now.
Read it again yourself. It is as plain as day that the context of the activity is necessary to consider. If my next door neighbour walked around his or her garden tomorrow naked, and I called the police, I hope the police would tell me it was no offence and that I should get a life.
However if this happened on multiple occasions, or my pre-teen daughters whose window backed on to said neighbour's garden were regularly perturbed, or if the actions of the naked neighbour might suggest he or she was going beyond merely being naked e.g. by potentially 'displaying' themselves (even if this is merely perceived and not an intended action), then clearly we are in a different situation.
Follow the flow chart on the third page of the document. The key here is if someone has actually been caused alarm or distress. You can't say the police were wrong to go to your house to investigate unless you have a transcript of the call they received from the complainant - if the caller described being disturbed by the nudity, then we have a potential POA offence, and the police have to investigate. The police I presume took no further action having done their job of checking the circumstances, happy an offence hadn't occurred, so I'm not quite sure why you are so anti their actions. The guidelines state that every incident should be treated according to the specific circumstances. In addition, I think it is useful for you to know that the nudity was being complained about, since at least then you're aware, and can choose to bear this in mind in future or not. Clearly if the same incident happened again, the defence that you didn't think it would cause distress would be less clear cut, now you've been armed with information that a complaint has been made.
I don't imagine any of this will make any difference to your feelings though - terms like 'fitted up' show such a pejorative attitude. I think also the idea that a neighbour looking out their own window and seeing your husband naked could be a criminal offence by that neighbour is plainly ludicrous - I presume your solicitor is referring to something like voyeurism under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, but that is an absolute nonsense. Perhaps they aren't worth the money you're paying them for such advice?
Hubs was stopped this summer in the city centre and quizzed about what he was doing. Actually he was just walking around looking for me since he had got the wrong coffee shop to meet up in.Maybe it looked susicious going in and out of shops. Maybe he looks a bit too "foreign"for our part of the world as it is true we are both a bit sun kissed these days and he is clearly not "british.I was not best pleased since he is always smartly dressed...though perhaps that was the trigger to stop him since just about everyone else seems to slob around in whatever and covered in tatoos. He was stopped even though a few metres away there are groups of "street people""öpenly dealing and taking drugs. That was his welcome to UK this year. We wont be coming back again any time soon.
I thought green was positive? Chromium vi to chromium iii .
Why is it a problem that the police breathalyse someone who has committed a road traffic offence e.g a brake light out? It's the law & their job to do this (& to breathalyse anyone they suspect may be drink-driving whether an road traffic offence has occurred or not). It hopefully keeps the roads a bit safer as it acts as a deterrent - around 10,000 people a year are hurt or killed as a result of drink-driving.
I know it is a pain to be stopped, but I feel I've stepped into a parallel universe with some of these posts where people in a profession that I thought required a bit of intellect to do, start railing against public servants who are doing their job, just because somehow they think they are too important for the law to be applied to them. Try telling someone their loved one is dead because of some stupid drink or drug driver and then you might get perspective on why the police do their jobs. And yes people do drink drive at 4:00pm and at all other times of the day. It is alienating to be stopped or searched (my worst experience was being strip searched in an Israeli airport because my passport had stamps in it from places like Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq) but ultimately it keeps us safer. There are selfish, dangerous & nasty people out there... I kid you not that I once arrested a man driving a fully loaded HGV who was so drunk he had not got a clue where in the country he was, (he thought he was in Essex around 150 miles away), nor could he even walk when I took him out of the cab.
I can see that you would like being naked of itself to be sexism but it isn't. It doesn't matter if the person 'being offended'was your teenage daughter or the Queen. There is no offence. There was no suggestion that my husband was doing anything wrong. They hadn't complained of any sexualities behaviour, only that they'd seen something they didn't like. They just didn't like seeing his body, in the same way that I don't like their curtains. So I don't look at them. The police should have followed the chart correctly and told them no offence had been committed and that no further action would be taken. In fact, of course, they didn't know there even were any guidelines, never mind had seen them. You can't complain that someone did something on legal that you just didn't like and then in the future expect it to somehow bolster a further baseless complaint.