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EIS to ballot for Strike Action on March 28th

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Kurtz32, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Sadly I suspect this is exactly what THEY count on... given that this date is four months on from the last strike if it is left any longer - 1 strike day a year perhaps? - you would have to question what impact any of it would have. Without coming over 'all militant', the only way striking is going to achieve anything is by more frequent action - not less.
    Given the current climate, that's a tough 'ask', as they say.
  2. Oh no I'm away on a residential school trip that date so won't be voting to strike - I definitely need to be paid for going away 24 hours a day!!
  3. There are quite a few that feel that strike action is not going to achieve anything. Ther has not exactly been a great deal of movement after the last strike.
    Yes it is. To lose around £100 for each strike day when, in real terms, your salary has lost around 11% of its value is going to harm a lot of people.
  4. heldon

    heldon Occasional commenter

    what happened to the idea of work to contract??
  5. The NASUWT has been following the decision in England to 'work to rule'. However, whilst the union has been very supportive to me personally re the various issues I have had with the shocking supply pay situation, I'm afraid that I haven't been able to attempt this because I'm the only member in my school and so it just hasn't been feasible for me.
    I do support the idea but more support in schools is needed. It needs the support of the majority of primary teachers but, sadly, they are usually members of the EIS and we all know that union's record on supporting their members, the vulnerable ones, that is.
  6. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Just t note that there appears to have been an inaccurate report on the SSTA position in the TESS today. Here's the correct situation ...

    SSTA currently HAS a mandate for strike action. The ballot which the SSTA implemented last year called for members to support dis-continous action. However, given that there have been some changes in the package offered by the UK government, SSTA members are being consulted on their views. This consultation concludes next week. I suspect that the verdict will be in favour of further action.

    My personal view is simple. One or two aspects of the proposals may have to be tholed. Increased contribution? Yes, provided it can be shown that the viability of the scheme requires this. We all know people are living longer and this may well mean that teachers have to pay more.

    However ...

    Career Average Pension : no unless there are cast iron guarantees about inflation proofing this. And most of all ...
    Working until National Pension Age. 68 OR OLDER. Is just non negotiable.

    If it takes another day's salary to get this message over to the UK government and the general public then so be it.
  7. Assuming the Scottish Executive end up following the English Scheme would it not be this?
    "b. A provisional accrual rate of 1/57th of pensionable earnings each year, and the resolution of outstanding issues not covered by this agreement.
    c. Revaluation of active members’ benefits in line with CPI + 1.6% ."
  8. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    I know I've said this before, but I'm still convinced that strike action won't get teachers anywhere and will just end up with the unions shooting themselves in the foot. All it does is give the EIS / SSTA / NASUWT leadership a day in the sun without really anything effective to show for it. In addition, the timing of the strike - in the last few weeks before the exam cycle - is only going to result in more parent antagonism and, as I've said before, these are the people who really need to be kept onside.

    A work to rule at the moment would actually cause more disruption for the Scottish Government and less disruption for parents and pupils. By undertaking this, it will make it even less likely - if at all - that CfE could be fully introduced in August, and would almost certainly mean that National 4 & 5 would have to be delayed for a year because nobody would be ready for it. While the union can't take action to directly target the introduction of a new curriculum, it can take action on pensions which will severely disrupt its introduction.
  9. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Yes,it would be good if somehow we could go "on strike" as far as participating in any CfE planning and development. However,the problem is that some of the time that we spend on it is part of our contracted hours,therefore,we probably be in breach of our contract if we didn't do it. You would need to have concrete proof that you spent all your hours doing something else and there was no time left for CfE stuff.
    I know that we probably all work more than those hours but it's proving it that might be a problem.
  10. As I've written here and elsewhere many times, I have close to 40 years teaching experience. I was a student teacher during Houghton, so I've seen every dispute in living memory. In all of these disputes I thought the choice was simple. If something is wrong then you have to oppose it and fight against it. If its right then you don't. Things are just the same to-day. There are totally unacceptable changes to pensions on the table - we pay more, for longer and get less in order to fill a financial hole in somebody else's pocket - not to fund pensions. What is on the table is a teacher tax and no amount of spin can make it into something else.

    If you believe that is wrong you have to oppose it and that means voting in any ballot for action and voting for action. I would appeal to everybody I know to vote for industrial action in the EIS ballot.

    Throughout my career there has always been debate about the best action to take - strike action or something else. The answer based on all that we have seen in the past 40 years is always the same. You must be prepared to and take strike action if you want to win your case. Other forms of action might be popular but not as an alternative to strike action. They just don't make the same impact.
  11. So what do you feel the last strike day has achieved?
    The Scottish Government hasn't even had any talks with the unions.
  12. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    And I thought I was cynical!

    As Getactive says above, sometimes you just have to strike whatever the cost. If that means antagonising parents then so be it. Does anyone imagine that parents give a stuff about our terms and conditions? They did not care in the 70s when our salaries were eroded by inflation. Or in the 80s when Tories adopted similar policies to the public sector as today. That's not to say that a work to rule is not attractive also, it may be that it has to be used together with occasional strike action. Unless we show how determined we are, parents will keep on dropping their little darlings off at the school gate for their cheap day care and the UK government and the Scottish Government too, will stitch us up like kippers.

    Ironically I suspect that both Getactive and myself are in the same boat: neither of us will be affected by these proposals. We're too old. However, we also know the consequences of not standing up to bullying governments and , speaking for myself, I am not prepared to see my profession being attacked in this way.
  13. Well unless I am mistaken the government has shifted its initial position and has offered older workers, like me greater protection, if we sell out the young teachers entering the profession who may have to work until they are 68 before they receive their deferred salary payment.

    Pensions are not a gift from the employer or the government or anybody else. They are deferred salary and in my opinion it is reprehensible for a government to impose what I see as an additional tax on teachers.

    Irrespective of this, the aim of a campaign is to get a satisfactory outcome so strike days have to be seen as part of the overall process. That is and always has been the case. I will be voting for action as I see it as the absolutely crucial and very public commitment to do what is right for my colleagues who will still be teaching 35 years after I have retired
  14. That offer was on the table before the November strike.
    However any offer so far made has been to the English Teachers' Pension Scheme. No talks have been forthcoming from the Scottish government either before or after last November's strike.
    It's mostly the younger teachers in our staffroom that are not keen on strike action so if they can't be bothered why would the older staff?
  15. If that is the case then I would suggest you discuss the implications of giving away pension, which is in reality deferred salary through inaction with them.

    I see you have noted the Scottish Government's evasion and avoidance on this matter.
  16. Already have done.
    However having had a pension talk from an IFA at EIS Financial Services, most now see that a Career Average Scheme is not going to leave them considerably worse off.
    Those currently under an age 65 retiral will have to work longer to age 67/68 but will get more in their pension. Or they can choose to still retire at age 65 and get a bit less. Or go somewhere between 65 and 67/68 with the same amount.
    Those currently on an age 60 retiral date would have to work a bit longer but not as much as age 67/68 if they take the early retirement option going with the amount they would have got.
    These projections are obviously based on the most recent propsals.
  17. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    I think the first part of this is correct but not the second. It was noticeable on the Edinburgh march last Nov 30th that older teachers were disproportionately represented. Older and wiser. Many took action in the 70s and 80s and know from that experience that it's the ONLY way to force change on a reluctant government.
    I can well understand why younger teachers are reluctant to strike. They are paid less, may well be in debt as a result of student loans etc and are often the most easily bullied. The answer to this, as Getactive suggests is to consider the consequences of NOT taking action.

  18. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    If that is true then may I suggest that this particular adviser be given his / her jotters asap? No one could make such a prediction at the moment and it runs counter to the advice I have received from much better informed sources! A final salary scheme has the only guaranteed protection against inflation over 30 plus years. A career average scheme asks you to bet your pension on the promises of politicians. The same people who changed the calculator for current pensioners to CPI from RPI within months of winning the election.
    You really are credulous aren't you? Sorry to be personal but you might as well go out and buy a lottery ticket tonight in the hope of winning. It might happen but the odds are millions to one against. You will of course have be alive to claim that pension.
    A bit less? Use your head. If that were true, what would be the point of bringing in these changes?

  19. As I said, it's based on the proposals as they stand at the moment.
    Nothing guaranteed about it, inflation wise. Your final salary is dependent on salary increases which don't always keep ahead of inflation. Look at now for example with no wage increase for 2 years and a proposed cap of 1% for the next 2 years.
    The inflation linking is laid out. It's as guaranteed as a pay rise is.
    Anything can be changed policy wise. Unfortunately a way of life.
    Again it's based on current proposals.
    Instead of just saying that they are wrong why not give some actual figures yourself from these much better sources? I am sure it would be helpful.
    Presumably to make them more affordable. Statistically people are living longer. When the schemes were first introduced life expectancy was much lower. People weren't expected to be in receipt of their pension for 25 or more years.
  20. What future is there for a union which urges its own members to vote to receive a pay cut?
    Isn't it time supply teachers in Scotland ditched the EIS and started their own union. I can't think of any other council employees who would accept a 30% pay cut without a fight. The councils need to restore the pay scales used prior to the mass pay-cut, and they need to do it now, before the EIS backtrack on their lunatic advice and then claim the glory for restoring our pay. The EIS deserves nothing from the supply community. Write to the EIS and ask them how many members they have lost since advising their (sleeping) members to vote our pay down to its current level. They've certainly lost my subscription - for good.

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