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EIS: 10% Pay Claim for 2018

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Liviboy, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    Subman - I am indeed very concerned with what you have written but I haven't heard of it from anywhere else which suggests this is currently something only affecting your LA.

    I think the time is coming to name-and-shame LA's - So far in the past few weeks we've had your horrifying tales of Saturday schools and being forced to work unpaid with no recourse, we've LA's who aren't paying backdated pay to Acting posts, who haven't even implemented the payrise in January We have LA's who haven't paid maternity leave folk because the calculations are "complicated".

    Enough really is enough.

    Thankfully, as far as I am aware, in my LA, everything seems to run smoothly...
  2. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    I knew that I'd voted no, I knew that this was why I'd changed union, I remembered it being a bad deal and a confusing one (an official from the EIS came to speak to us at school to tell us to vote "no" but within a few weeks, the EIS was saying "yes") but I'd forgotten all the details until I read Liviboy's links. How much did we gave away,just like that!
    Liviboy likes this.
  3. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Same here.
  4. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    I think the key message for me is I won't sit back and presume that my colleagues all understand the importance of taking a stance...even though my school collectively voted no, my friends in other schools nearly all followed the EIS lead. Maybe I just had a great rep at the time.

    It was the 2011 issue that go me much more involved with my trade union. I remain an EIS member and am much more involved with the union at a higher level than I was before, hopefully to ensure a repeat of 2011 doesn't happen again!

    As I've said numerous times, I voted NO to the 2011 agreement, I thought it was detestable to give a "Yes" backing to. However, I also remember at the time the huge amount of scaremongering about redundancies, job cuts, no contracts, etc. It was a time of massive teacher oversupply - a far cry from today! I was fighting against 200 other candidates for each temporary job I applied for...the most recent advert in my school had 1 applicant...funnily enough she got the job!

    The holiday thing I didn't really understand why people were asked on day 1 to tell the HT if they had been off sick to claim the holidays...I was much less informed of employment things than I am now...

    I was very much an NQT when that vote took place...
  5. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    This is absolute mince and scaremongering, which we don't need at present.

    As both Liviboy and I have already stated the teaching year is 195 days - 190 days when the kids are in and 5 In-Service days. No more.

    You can be asked to work during the holidays but your response should be 2 words and end with "off".
    Gavster77 likes this.
  6. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    So teachers work 195 that has been written down.
    Teachers have 40 days holiday max. That is in place.
    Anyone spot a contradiction?

    Yes I know it is scary, what we all have to do is refuse the push that has seen HT asking people to work on days that are outside of the 40 days holiday. My LA are putting in place a document stating which days are included in the 40 days. This is "to give clarity to staff as to what days are holidays" . Why are they doing this? so that they can ask us to work on days that are normally seen as a holiday.

    It might not be impacting on you at the moment but does anyone think it is not coming their way. Be strong say no and lets all get our unions to fight it.
  7. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Exactly. The 40 days holiday is now written down as a legal agreement. For the time being,teachers are continuing to not have to be at their place of work when pupils are not there (apart from the 5 inset days). However, in reality, all we are entitled to have as holiday is those 40 days. There are plenty ways how we could lose what we see as our holidays (minus those 40 days). A deal for more money could see having to be in school for a week in the summer (I could see being accepted by a lot of teachers as many people do come in to do preparation already and many claim to be bored at end of holiday). Another wind of change could see more days lost to being available for revision classes at Easter (it's for the children brigade would love this). Who knows? Anything is possible up to the 40 days limit!
  8. Gavster77

    Gavster77 Occasional commenter

    Read the SNCT agreement. 35hr weeks nix the idea of working weekends unless a significant portion of "the school day" time is allowed a teacher to McCrone in.

    There is a vast difference between an HT or LA official declaring that you will work on a weekend. They certainly cannot insist you work on designated holidays. Bell your union rep or even lawyer if need be. that is breach of contract.

    Your soul is not the LA's 365days a year except on 40 days - these are pro rata holidays. J'accuse of subman68 gaslighting us that he/she is a put upon teacher and is ini fact a manager at school or LA level wanting to know how much put-uponing he/she can do. NOT MUCH WITHOUT CONSULTATION!!!
  9. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    They’re doing it because it is a requirement of your SNCT Terms & Conditions...

    ALL LA’s must designate which days are holidays and which are school closure...that has been the case for the past umpteen years. Usually agreed at the LNCT of your LA.


    I think you need to start reading your terms & conditions a bit more before jumping to conclusions about “new” things your LA seem to introducing.

    As I’ve said already, I’m concerned at some of the things you have said but I’m 100% certain if challenged properly by union HQ your HT would be told to do one!
    Flere-Imsaho and Effinbankers like this.
  10. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Will people please get wise


    195 days is the limit. No more.

    Here's where it says so


    So can we have no more posts on this scaremongering garbage?

    Liviboy and Flere-Imsaho like this.
  11. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    I suppose any pay deal could be tied to amending the SNCT agreements to increase working days but that has nothing to do with the current holiday vs closure days issue.
  12. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    I suppose that any pay deal could be tied to teachers cleaning the corridors, cooking school meals, washing the windows and polishing my heedie's motor as well

    In a time when workload is a major issue are we going to be stupid enough to work more days? There is abolsutely no sign of this happening, so all this is pure conjecture and is simply not going to happen!

    In addition, why on earth would COSLA want to increase the number of days teachers work?

    That's going to cost them even more money. Increased heating, lighting and electricity use, extra janitorial, extra office staff. Losing the ability to let the place out for community usage in summer also loses revenue.
    sicilypat likes this.
  13. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    I don't think it's on the cards but I can imagine a scenario where schools offer a paid-for top-up school in the current holidays to alleviate childcare issues for parents and/or "close the attainment gap" (possibly making it free for those on low incomes).
  14. OwerAuld

    OwerAuld Occasional commenter

    OK so I'm not overly prone to optimism, but there does finally be seem to be some creeping recognition that in addition to the recruitment crisis in Scottish education there is the much bigger retention crisis. Maybe, just maybe, they might just lay off the hair-brain schemes and bribes to get folk into teaching and instead give just a little bit of thought to making the job more attractive over the long haul.

    Should say, before the Brit-Nats get started, things really aren't any better in England.
  15. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    SNCT 3.6 Teachers (other than short term supply teachers) shall have a 35 hour working week. The working week shall apply on a pro rata basis to teachers on part-time contracts.

    Yes I know it is different but the idea stands.
    SNCT is changed we know that, the argument comes in when we are told we must change or that we must attend.

    The issue with the janny, office staff and heating is a non event. They are all in and working over the holidays, most teachers have wandered into school during the summer, was it a ghost town? nope. I think they might push for a weeks "prep" time in the summer, just to help us prepare for the kids coming back.
  16. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    What has changed?

    From the section right above the part you quoted:

    It is very clear that the working year for teachers is 195 days, which translates to 39 weeks.

    Those 39 weeks are 35-hours.

    The total number of hours you work works out at 1365 per annum.

    What is so difficult to understand about this basic part of your Ts & Cs?

    And yes, Ts & Cs CAN and ARE changed but this is in agreement with all 3 parties of the SNCT...and any changes to that would most certainly be balloted (and likely rejected) by teachers.
  17. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    It is not hard to understand, it is as you say down to the teachers. Who would have thought teachers voted to shaft supply teachers? Who would have voted for no payrise? who would have voted to see our pension slashed?

    I like the idea that you think I am a crazy howling at the moon, ignore me, everything will be ok......wont it, the teachers would not shoot themselves in the foot for a 6% pay increase would they!
    catmother likes this.
  18. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Totally agree with you,Subman.
  19. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    What part of "you can't be asked to work during your summer holidays" don't you understand?

    As Livboy and I have pointed out, repeatedly, 195 days is 190 days of teaching plus five In-Service days. It's really annoying when someone keeps banging a drum that has no truth in it whatseover.

    Until it is proposed or put on the table (it won't be), then this is just utter pish.
    Liviboy likes this.
  20. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Even if it were allowed under our current conditions, I fail to see why the Scottish Government or COSLA would think it a sensible suggestion to increase our working days as part of any pay deal. The generous holiday allowance is now the main perk people are managing to cling on to as we've continued to face declining pay. Among people who I've heard considering leaving the profession, the thing I've heard them all refer to is the holidays. Why would they reduce that in the face of a recruitment crisis? In fact, a more sensible suggestion for them to make would be to turn one or two of the inservice days into 'school closure days.'
    MilkyBar Kid and Effinbankers like this.

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