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EIS: 10% Pay Claim for 2018

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Liviboy, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Jimmy, when I saw that headline my first thought was it will be a lie or a distortion, just a piece of sensationalism of a newspaper suffering falling circulation. And so it Is. The key is UP TO 20% and over FOUR years, so that could work out at as much as 5% down to maybe 2 or 3 ? So it is utterly irrelevant to our fight. It's good to see so many colleagues posting her though who are up for it.
  2. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Lead commenter

    Good headline though!

    I thought there would be more to it before I read the article, and of course there was.

    Without doing the actual arithmetic, would 5% pa be acceptable for each of the next four years? Methinks probably yes.
  3. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    Yes I am, We have already been asked to come in days for pupils changing courses after results, "just 2 days before school starts back......no you don't get a day in off another day, these are school closer days" It has started and it will increase. Remember you get 40 days holiday only, your union gave the other days away for......yeah nothing in return.

    Ask for 10% min I think we should not settle for less than 8% for the next 3 years.
  4. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Surely,you were not able to go in as you were away abroad up to the very last day?

    Most people did not even pay attention to this one,as usual.
    inthered and subman68 like this.
  5. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    yip I was on holiday, 3 PT guidance did go in they did to full days, got no thanks and no extra pay. Why would you do this, because the union gave away our pay and conditions. There is a lot of talk round my way of asking teachers to do at least 5 days prep work during the summer, and it must be done onsite (where is your mccrone there?). We are past the thin edge of the wedge and teachers need to look around and see what is happening.

    When the union asks you to vote on industrial action remember a no vote is now counted as a NO. getting 50% of teachers to vote yes is not going to happen and we are going to get shafted.

    So glad I have handed in my notice, going at Easter.
  6. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Lead commenter

    Good for you.

    Teaching: the only job where the core job function doesn't matter.
  7. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    Well the SNP Govt Budget announcement today has upped the pay offer to 3% for public sector workers earning under £36,500, so most teachers are included in that figure (top of scale £36,480).

    From 3%, the fight for an extra couple of % to 4% or 5% seems a bit less daunting than before.

    We're still not going to be near the 10% figure but it is a step in the right direction for our fight.

    Maybe...just maybe....as long as people VOTE when they eventually get balloted!
  8. OwerAuld

    OwerAuld Occasional commenter

    Clever move a cut off for the 3% at £36500

    No coincidence that it is just above the top of main scale.

    Not so much designed to reduce differentials or recognise the value of main scale teachers.

    Another classic divide and conquer tactic. What they are depending on is that while the 3% is woefully inadequate, unprompted staff will be so happy to be doing better than their promoted colleges that they will fall for it.
  9. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    To all the people worrying about being told to work during "closure days", the official position is:

    "The working year for teachers shall consist of 195 days of which 190 days will coincide with the school year for pupils with the remaining five days being worked by the individual teachers on duties as planned by the council"

    If you are instructed to work during your summer holidays. Don't. Its not enforcebale.

    If you are silly enough to do this, make sure you have pre-agreed lieu time, in writing
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  10. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    Agree with Effin on closure days. You categorically cannot be expected to work during them as they are not working days. Some schools will have guidance staff in for course changes after exam results and do give time off in lieu. I remember hearing at the time the 'closure day' thing was brought in because of something to do with maternity pay calculations but I didn't understand it then (and probably wouldn't now!) Anyone else remember?
  11. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Yip it was brought in to stop those returning from maternity/sickness claiming additional . Thye could be directed to take some of that during school closure periods.

    It has nothing to do with reducing our holidays. The rules on the 195 days (maximum) are quite clear.

    I'd actually be up for doing a few days during school closure in return for a few days at home during term time!
  12. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Yes,that was another good one! Workers were legally entitled to something and our unions made a deal to basically stop workers having that right. Good work,unions. Sometimes,I wonder whose side they are on.
  13. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    I'm not defending the 2011 deal...BUT... the unions are member-led organisations. The unions did NOT agree to anything. The membership were balloted and the membership i.e. the TEACHERS voted FOR the deal.

    Now the EIS did suggest a "Yes" vote for it but if we really are the professionals we claim to be, then I'd like to think we aren't all sheep that blindly follow regardless.

    If you didn't like the fact the unions recommended the deal, then perhaps you should stand for election to, for example, the EIS Council who makes these suggestions...

    Just a thought, but I am sick and tired of people moaning about "the unions" when unions are member-led, democratic organisations and who simply put an offer to members for them to vote on. It was colleagues/fellow teachers who gave up the holiday rights, who shafted supply teachers, who allowed pay freezes to take place.
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  14. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

  15. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    I agree CM, but the offer was a vast improvement on the original one.

    I was only just beginning my career at the point of that vote...

    However, this was what was given to us, just for information for others who may have forgotten the exact details and the huge changes they wanted to make to our other Ts&Cs.

    A cutting of paid holiday to 40 days whilst maintaining the working year at 195 days was a fairly acceptable compromise given every other cut/change COSLA wanted to make.


    And this lists the agreement/changes in full:

  16. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    Really? A cutting of conditions was ok was it? Lets all be very very clear here. Your holidays were cut, you can and I am sure in the very near future will be asked to work extra days. It was 100% checked out in my school with both unions when people were asked to work extra days. The HT did not push it as a couple said they were on holiday and did not have enough notice to change plans or planes. People worked 2 days £300 ish worth of unpaid work each. You will find that after a HT meeting when a director of education puts it to them that "we can get the teachers in early for no extra pay" all HTs will then feel brave enough to tell us to come in, with 12 months notice.
  17. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    So you have that, in writing, from your employer and the union HQ do you? If you refused to work and were disciplined I think you'd have a 100% chance of success at tribunal.

    Your Ts&Cs are crystal clear:

    And no, I voted against the 2011 agreement as it happens, as did my entire staffroom!

    What I said was, compared to the huge swathes of cuts...and there was absolutely no mood for any type of industrial action at that time...to others Ts &Cs, an administrative cut to holidays, which we were told would only really affect Mat Leave returners, was a reasonable compromise to put to ballot.

    I wasn't in favour of it and I didn't vote for it.
    Effinbankers likes this.
  18. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    And the reason your HT "didn't push it" was because they knew what they were asking/demanding was wrong.

    And more fool the idiots in your school who turned up to work for free! We all know that teachers "go in" over the summer holiday to set-up/prep things but that's voluntary, and not directed.

    Why anyone, let alone a so-called "professional" would actually attend to work for free is beyond me!
    Effinbankers likes this.
  19. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    The only possible explanation was that hours were AGREED in the Working Time Agreement (say 14 hours for 2 days) but I think even that would be pushing things and could be very easily challenged as it goes against the working days as stated in the terms & conditions of employment. Otherwise the 195 hours allocated in the Working Time Agreements would turn into 27 full days of work...
  20. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    Yes we got it in writing from both unions that we could not win this case if the HT had given adequate notice. He did not.

    I have issues with the 2011 agreement as it clearly states there will be no payrise and it impacted negatively on our conditions of service. There were a lot of teachers sitting back thinking it did not impact on them so if the union say yes then why not. It has come back to bite anyone that has been on maternity or long term sick and the teachers that did supply we all know were shafted.
    This has also hit all of us as we are now fighting to get our pay back to where it should be, the fact that the teaching unions lead teachers to vote yes was poor. I left the EIS (but agree SSTA are not much better).
    We can not get supply, we can not get teachers for Home Ec, Bus Education, Computing or Maths. Why are we not demanding a pay rise at a decent level that we will fight for. oh and lets have it in writing that the magical 195 days will not be overturned because our directors of education are planning on using teachers for all sorts of things.

    20% pay for fireman as long as you jump through the hoops, 10% for teachers if you take on some social work roles, mental health counselling, parenting classes and the joy that is coming in to my LA right now Saturday school.

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