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EIS: 10% Pay Claim for 2018

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Liviboy, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    To paraphrase your quote Marco

    We did all of this in 2007-8.

    And their pay is now back above the curve. They haven't suffered

    Banks don't educate people. They don't babysit between 9 and 4 every day. They don't look after the welfare of children. The don't add value to the lives of young people through trips, sporting events and other activities.
     
    Alice K and bigjimmy2 like this.
  2. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    What democratic will? I wonder how many of the SSTA members actually participated in the survey mentioned in the news. And I have real doubt that 50% of members of any union will get it together enough to vote.

    The driver here is not the threat of strikes but the shortage of teachers.
     
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  3. MilkyBar Kid

    MilkyBar Kid Occasional commenter

    The bottom line is, and this question will be asked over and over again in the coming months is ... 'What is a teacher worth?' especially in relation to other professional public sector workers such as nurses, doctors and social workers? Where do we fit in along that scale? Everyone sympathises with nurses and doctors, we ain't going to win a popularity contest there, nor should we be worried about popular opinion. Of course Joe Public will feel that we do alright with our 12 week hols etc, but they don't know half of what we have to put up with in the classroom, let them try our jobs. As I said before a couple of national 1 day strikes and the attention will soon be focussed on the employers and SG for not reaching an agreement. The truth is that teachers have the collective power to cause major disruption to the Scottish economy if they choose to go on strike. We will be hated by all and sundry, but end up getting what we deserve.
     
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  4. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Agreed, I'm not saying this is my view merely pointing out the type of propaganda that will be flung at us. The elite love to play one section of workers off against another and imply that if we get a rise we are stopping say nurses from getting one, which is what was put to Larry Flanagan on Friday night. He should have said well if we renounce a rise will the money we forego go to the nurses? Of course not. But there still remains that problem of ordinary workers on low wages who can be easily persuaded that we are greedy and will resent us getting what they're not. They are unlikely to buy the argument about the bankers, though obviously the question of a small elite getting the lions share is key. But that's capitalism for you...
     
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  5. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Agreed.

    But this is not a popularity contest, it's about getting appropriate value for the job we do.

    The train drivers don't really give a flying eff - and they seem to get decent rises. And I dont see people boycotting the railways. We need to take note.
     
    sicilypat, bigjimmy2 and inthered like this.
  6. Dominieredivivus

    Dominieredivivus New commenter

    With the benefit of hindsight and from a reasonably secure retirement.

    The pension I have now is the pension i and my predecessors fought for. The conditions I had when I retired likewise. I and my colleagues took strike action in the 1970s and 1980s and that, allied to the shortage of teachers was the most significant factor in protecting and improving my standard of living then and now.

    All the arguments rehearsed above were iterated in my time but, in my opinion, they were all trumped by the single most important argument: if you are not prepared to take a stand to advance your own salaries and conditions then you will be ignored and worse, laughed at as naive fools.
     
    Alice K, subman68, sicilypat and 3 others like this.
  7. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Guys, you're correct my point is that we should never have allowed this huge fall in wages to take place. The unions, and we teachers, took the easy option and I heard many who said we should not expect more in a time of austerity. The upshot is that we are back to pre McCrone levels of pay and even supposing we get 10% this year we will still be miles behind where we were in 2008. Just wait and see what the Scottish government will say about us when push comes to shove, and we'd better be ready for a bitter struggle for I can't see them bringing about the radical change In distribution in wealth that would give us what we want. We here know how the banks and the financial elite have enriched themselves at the expense of ordinary people but is there anyone in the Scottish government prepared to deal with that? How, then, do you answer the simple question, where do you get the money to fund our claim from within the budget? I am acting as devil's advocate here.
     
    bigjimmy2 likes this.
  8. beharder

    beharder Occasional commenter

    I believe we have got the timing wrong here. There is still over 3 years until the next Scottish election so the SS at the top of the SNP will not feel under any electoral pressure to give in to what they claim is there number 1 priority.
     
  9. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I think the maximum we will get is 4%. I agree with all that has been said beforehand and don't have anything new to add. Collectively we are rubbish. I do hope I am wrong.
     
  10. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    I do know a number of teachers that did supply "thanking" the union for what they did for them. Not to surprising that they all left the union and all but 1 of them have left teaching. Teaching unions have suffered by a lack of backbone. I am up for the strike and I think we will need to do it to get any sort of above inflation pay claim.
     
  11. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

  12. Liviboy

    Liviboy Occasional commenter

    Headline is very misleading...

    Up to 20% rise for taking on additional responsibilities including anti-terrorism and emergency medical care.

    It also comes at a cost of up to 300 jobs!

    Just as we need people to read beyond the headlines so do the firefighters!
     
  13. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Established commenter

    I know, I did read it!
     
  14. beharder

    beharder Occasional commenter

    Teachers may be asked to take on extra responsibilities. Social work duties , mental health work part time bouncers. We are going to notice one helluva difference.
     
  15. inthered

    inthered Occasional commenter

    We need a pay rise WITHOUT additional responsibilities. No selling conditions off for more money like we did under McCrone; look how far that got us. Anyone else feeling nervous about the 'school closure' days?
     
    Effinbankers, bigjimmy2 and catmother like this.
  16. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Funny all the stuff that supposedly came out of McCrone that I never remember reading about in McCrone!
     
  17. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Those are lurking about,reading to come out fully loaded at some point!
     
  18. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    No

    1. How much money would COSLA/government have to find to have us in? A lot more than the 4% suggested by some of the posts above

    2. If there is one thing to get teachers annoyed it is the removal of holiays. Never mind CFE, BGE, SQA, GIRFEC and all the other sh ite and increased workload we have to deal with (which has gone relatively unchallenged); if there's one thing that will get middle class Mrs Smith irate it is the inabilty to have two weeks in Tuscany at the start of August. That will provoke a strike
     
    bigjimmy2 and inthered like this.
  19. MilkyBar Kid

    MilkyBar Kid Occasional commenter

    If anything I think the employers may go the other way and offer to bin some of the 5 insets giving us more hols in exchange for a pay rise. e.g. 4 insets would equate to 2% of working year so 3% + 4 insets as hols (which wouldn't affect parents) may be offered instead of 5%. If we hold out for anywhere near 5% the employers will want their pound of flesh to justify any beyond inflation offer. However I don't see any additional duties coming into play, I would hope the unions would see off any of that nonsense early doors.
     
    bigjimmy2, GuessWho and Effinbankers like this.
  20. Crewofmoya

    Crewofmoya New commenter

    We need to stand together and fight,regardless of what union we may be in.EIS has got to take the lead and grow some balls.I personally don't care if it makes us unpopular,enough is enough.My council says we are axing 160 teaching posts and teachers say oh I hope it isn't me instead of saying not without a bloody good fight you're not! Look at turnout for ballots,always depressingly low.What does it take for us to stand up and defend our profession and our rights!Why should the public care when so many of us don't seem to care? Wake up colleagues.If we dont fight our corner on this we deserve nothing.
     
    le06150, beharder, bigjimmy2 and 3 others like this.

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