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Effectiveness of school closures

Discussion in 'Education news' started by greygaunt, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. greygaunt

    greygaunt New commenter

  2. crumbleskates

    crumbleskates New commenter

    Yes, I posted similar on the specific coronavirus pages under Leadership and Management.
    lizzy9 likes this.
  3. colacao17

    colacao17 Senior commenter

    School closures can only be (intelligently) assessed as part of a package of social distancing measures.

    Not much use on their own, but essential if social distancing is to be of any use. Anyone who thinks schools can run and respect social distancing has little idea of what schools are really like.
  4. moscowbore

    moscowbore Lead commenter

    Yes, children do not get the symptoms.

    What about the teachers? Will they be given hazmat suits? I think not.

    What about the thousands of extra journeys spreading infection. I simply do not understand how opening schools can even be considered until a vaccine is available.
    agathamorse, Sally006, JL48 and 3 others like this.
  5. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Can anyone tell me how you get 30 kids in a classroom and sit them all 2m away from each other?
    Lidnod, Rosiehns, agathamorse and 6 others like this.
  6. install

    install Star commenter

    The current strategy is to slow the virus down and not flood the nhs. It was also about self isolation and whole family isolation. This report fails to consider that.

    Children have died. Social isolation doesn’t just mean school
    closures - almost everywhere is closed. Lives are being saved because we are all staying in our homes.

    The report also does not look into the idea of ‘carriers’ who may not show symptoms.
    agathamorse, Sally006, Pomza and 3 others like this.
  7. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    It's worth reading the paper in Lancet Child and Adolescent Health. What's in the newspapers is very incomplete.
    agathamorse, PeterQuint and install like this.

    ACOYEAR8 Occasional commenter

    Are you able to share the contents of this article or provide a link ?
    That would be useful, thanks.
    agathamorse likes this.

    ACOYEAR8 Occasional commenter

    Further thinking on this leads me to ponder " scientifically".... Evidence ? Control testing carried out ? Balance of scientific opinion ? The press don't actually like schools very much so this kind of story excites them. Logic demands that opening schools should lie alongside opening everything else as well. Minds for a start and then the mass morgues.
    agathamorse, install and Catgirl1964 like this.
  10. colacao17

    colacao17 Senior commenter

    To those who hold the purse strings, particularly any who think along the same lines as Dominic Cumming, opening schools at this time might even be a way of getting rid of older, experienced (and therefore expensive) staff as they will either resign to avoid putting themselves and their famiies at risk or - some of them at least - will die.

    This isn't about education or about health concerns and effects on contagion, The impetus for this comes from concerns over the economy and the value of schools as a childminding service.
  11. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Occasional commenter

    Staff could sign themselves off with stress. When schools do re-open (Sept at the earliest with the risk of a second wave) if I feel put under pressure before then to return, as an at risk 55 year old TA, I will be looking to be signed off. I will not risk my health or that of my husband in an experiment which is a best guess scenario that having schools closed has a negligible effect on CV numbers. I am not cannon fodder and, at less than £10 per hour, am not prepared to be put at risk. Look at Boris Johnson’s current situation.
    agathamorse, Sally006, JL48 and 2 others like this.
  12. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    ACOYEAR8 likes this.
  13. install

    install Star commenter

    Agree. Logic also shows that many other countries have closed their schools, facilities and businesses too. It would prove impossible to track and trace exactly where the virus is travelling.
    ACOYEAR8 likes this.
  14. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    If we are candid the real problem is that you cannot send the workers back until you have the babysitters back. Teachers are the babysitters now. Social distancing can work in a lot of places but it wont work in schools. By their nature schools are places which herd children together in relatively small spaces. We cant line them up outside and put lines every two metres . We cant put them two metres apart in classrooms because there just isn't room. What is going on here is a battle between those who need the economy restarted as quickly as possible and those who want health put first.

    Given we have now had exams cancelled and frankly I doubt that will make much difference to the results at the end of the day, it just changes the pressures on teachers from pushing to get kids through exams by rote to rank ordering them for the exam boards. A few more kids might benefit from this but overall, pupils are what they are and most of us are rarely surprised I suspect by the results after exams . What most of us find is SLT and parents who have unrealistic expectations and demands (and possibly a few students who like to think its their teachers fault rather than taking responsibility for their own results).

    I can understand independent schools wanting to get back because of the fees. I work in an independent. However, with no exams now when I do go back I wont actually have a lot to do. My year 11 and 13 are gone - why should they come back except to harass me into improving their grades face to face rather than in e mails?

    Its too late to reinstate the exams as most students stopped revising as soon as they heard exams were cancelled. I suppose I will be deployed onto the lower school covering colleagues who will find any excuse to go out on some visit/ trip/ sports fixture or similar to get out of having to teach the larger lower school classes. That puts me more at risk from asymptomatic younger pupils sent in because parents need the babysitter ( back to baby sitters again!).

    Much of the summer term is spent on exams, and on jollies in equal measure. The educational value of summer term is quite limited so its not about education ( and in my experience of working in state schools the same applies there too).

    Yes, that's my rant.

    I would have expected schools to be last on the list to re open as its the one least able to use social distancing and maintain it. Children then go home and give it to their vulnerable family members who may still be self isolating - not to mention their teachers who are also very vulnerable. Looking at the figures for contagion and nothing more it would seem the more exposure you are subjected to ( ie healthy care workers with no underlying conditions going down with Covid) the more your chances of getting a a significant illness.
  15. simonCOAL

    simonCOAL Occasional commenter

    I recognise a lot of your heart-felt post.
    But just wanted to say that I haven’t had a summer term filled with jollies, for the last 20 years.
  16. colacao17

    colacao17 Senior commenter

    Considering teachers as essential workers is completely different from health workers.

    The NHS are going to work to treat the sick and to keep people alive
    Supermarket staff and all the workers who are part of the supply chain are working so that we don't starve.

    Teachers would be going back to work so that non-essential workers can go back to work. For the economy. it's not the same at all.
  17. moscowbore

    moscowbore Lead commenter

    I do not get your point.

    Supermarket workers are not packed into small rooms with 30 diseased, shedding children.
  18. Lalex123

    Lalex123 Established commenter

    Wow, people really must hate teachers in the outside world to commission this study. This kind of misinformation is what the idiots use on social media to berate teachers, police officers, 5g masts, etc.

    Of course school closures are working, the number of people being infected is slowing down.

    I might be way off base here but this wreaks of manipulation via fake news; let’s get teachers back in, they aren’t value for money at the moment and we need people to babysit whilst we get people back to work and back to normal, for the sake of the economy. People will die but maybe that’s what the government want. We are expendable. I have never felt more undervalued and this pandemic has highlighted how much contempt people hold for the teaching profession.

    An acquaintance said to me the other day ‘I bet you’re loving this, getting paid and being off. It’ll be summer soon and you’ll have another 6 weeks paid’. I wish some PR genius would swoop in an sort out our reputation, this isn’t good for recruitment, retention or government funding for schools.
    agathamorse, Catgirl1964 and Sally006 like this.
  19. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    I hope you replied along the lines:

    'Yes, it's fantastic; when you go back to work I'll be enjoying a 6 weeks holiday - we may even get away if conditions improve! You know, there's nothing to stop you training to be a teacher - and there are vacancies in many schools'! What's stopping you'?
  20. Lalex123

    Lalex123 Established commenter

    Haha I always reply with something along those lines but it seems to make them more furious ;)
    agathamorse and Morninglover like this.

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