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DTTLS confusion still

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by lisadraper, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. I am just about to complete my DTTLS course at level 6 and am very very confused that I may have just wasted 2 years of my life. I have worked as a cover supervisor in a secondary academy for 7 years and cover my subject specialist, PE. I have been told on numerous occasions that I will be able to use my qualification at secondary level but on reading your forums I am led to believe otherwise. My tutors even tell me I can use my QTLS to apply for secondary jobs, even coming to my academy to observe my teaching. please please please can someone help me.
  2. Firstly DTLLS is a qualification for those teaching in the 'Life-long Learning Sector'. The clue is in the name. It is not intended as a qualification for those teaching in schools.
    Secondly, DTLLS does not confer QTLS, it is, (amongst other qualifications), a prerequisite. QTLS is gained by demonstrating experience in teaching in the Life-long Learning Sector. It cannot be gained whilst teaching in schools.
    Thirdly QTS/QTLS parity means one thing, and one thing only. It means that if you are employed by a school as a school teacher you will paid the same if you have either QTS or QTLS. What it doesn't mean that they are equal qualifications. QTS demonstrates that you have trained and achieved a certain standard of practice in the school sector. QTLS means you have trained and achieved a certain standard of practice in the LLS.
    There is nothing stopping you applying for secondary teaching jobs now, its just that in the very competitive market of PE you would stand virtually no chance succes. If you achieve DTLLS and QTLS (and I don't see how you can), then you will be competing against those with BEds & PGCEs with QTS, and I still would't fancy your chances.
    I don't know who has been advising you; but if you wish to teach in schools the best route is to train as school teacher.

  3. If you look on the IFL website QTLS is achieved at level 6 when completing the DTTLS PGCE course. AT level 6 I have a Ba(hons) already. so really I dont understand where the grey area comes in. My tutors and mentors have assured me that I have the required qualification to teach secondary. still confused
    and if it is not gained teaching in schools then why I am being observed teaching secondary school lessons?????
  4. If you are relying on the IfL for advice you are making two mistakes; firstly that they represent the interests of school teachers, secondly that they know what they are doing. But look more carefully at;
    Then why post here? What does your HT and HoD say? Would they employ you with these qualifications?
    Surely you can see from the title of the qualification that it is not intended for school teachers?
    Your tutors are acting unprofessionally if they have not made this clear to you.
    I guess they could observe you in a school setting if you were teaching L3, although this is less than satisfactory.
    Essentially because you are following a training route for FE teachers without gaining any teaching experience in FE solely to become a school teacher without actually training as a school teacher. The worst of both worlds.
    This was never the intention of QTS/QTLS parity; it was intended to allow FE teachers who are teaching subjects like motor vehicle engineering to teach in schools on an equal footing with school teachers.
    There is no shortage of school trained PE teachers with QTS and this is essentially your problem.
    If its any consolation it looks as if Gove is intent in scrapping all teacher qualifications (his side-kick Nick Gibb has already accepted proposals to scrap DTLLS and QTLS).
  5. The confusion you have lisa is not uncommon, hence all of the "Help!" threads here. But I do agree, you have either misunderstood good advice or not been given any!
    Essentially you are working towards certification in FE, post 16 (OK, 14 - 19 if you take that bit seriously) but training in the compulsory sector - an unsatisfactory mix for both sectors as you will lack qualification for secondary and experience in FE!
    Have another word with your tutor and see if you can get more clarity.

    Also achieving DTTLS does not automatically confer QTLS, that is another misunderstanding very many people / trainers have. QTLS is/was a post certification award that recognised good practice. I say was as it is possibly on its way to becoming defunct now IfL is now non-compulsory!
    There are a lot of threads here that discuss the woeful lack of knowledge in P/C/DTTLS trainers. The inadequate/incorrect information you are being given is, sadly, not unusual.
    But, to be honest, as S+T has said, this is probably something you should have done a bit more research on before you started.
    What you need to do now is make sure you can get a workable solution for yourself.
    Good luck.
  6. To my knowledge QTLS only applies to the age group 11 to 16 who are engaged in courses leading to Vocational GCSE?s (nationally recognised work-related qualifications designed to provide pupils with a choice of routes into further education or employment) in the following: Business Studies, Engineering, Health & Social Care, Leisure & Tourism and Construction.

    In my opinion QTLS was always being mis-sold as a major benefit to all members when in fact it could only ever have benefited a tiny, tiny minority, less than 2% of membership, towards gaining recognition in schools. Importantly, it must also be noted that the recent Lingfield Review, which has been welcomed by Government, found ?QTLS/ATLS has not become a universal full licence to practise and a driver of teaching excellence.? So much for IfL's view...just goes to prove; Self praise is no recommendation.

    And one should also bear in mind, when giving information on QTLS status recognition in schools, the DfE say: ?They [QTLS teachers] will continue to be recognised as qualified school teachers providing they remain a member of the IfL.? ? so QTLS won't be recognised if IfL ceases to exist...... I?ll leave you to work out the rest....

  7. From 1 April 2012 IfL members with Qualified
    Teacher Learning and Skills (QTLS)status are recognised as qualified to teach in schools.

    Statutory instrument 2012 No. 431, which was laid in parliament on 9
    March 2012, amended the 2003 Regulations so that holders of QTLS who are
    IfL members have Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) and may be appointed to
    permanent positions as qualified teachers, without any further
    induction requirements.

    Schools and local authorities will remain responsible for decisions
    on employing QTLS holders, and IfL will maintain the national register
    of QTLS holders, including those teaching in schools.
  8. Barney - that's not fair!
    Lisa cannot know that that is only half the story. None of that helps her gain work in a school in a curriculum subject.
    Lisa, terryclarke's post was probably the most informative for you. Barney has a slightly blinkered view of what IfL and QTLS promise!
  9. Ok Lisa, what I wrote is the official policy and regulations as they currently stand. Happy now Pob?
  10. It is still not the whole story as it does not include the caveats, the applicable subjects etc. It is not fair to leave anyone believing that IfL and QTLS will allow them to work in a school, with or without parity.
    We simply cannot tell what the ramifications of the regulations will be as they have not been tested and IfL has since changed.
    The whole system is simply not fair, shambolic and utterly misleading. Lisa needs to know now so she has time to do something about her situation. Reassuring her is not fair! She needs to know that there is a possible problem.
  11. I have given correct information from the IfL website. I have not made any other statements or given any opinion or offered guidance of any kind, nor offered reassurance. That is your own interpretation of the words I have written, Pob.
  12. Lisa. Your tutors are correct in saying you can *apply* for secondary jobs but it would seem from your post they?re not telling you the whole story.

    As the law stands, and as I mentioned before, QTLS only applies to teaching 11 to 16 year olds who are doing *Vocational GCSE?s* in: Business Studies, Engineering, Health & Social Care, Leisure & Tourism and Construction.

    Unfortunately, and I?m open to correction, PE is not classed as a vocational GCSE, so a QTLS probably won?t help you get a job in your subject specialism within a state funded school.

    But even if it did, the odds are stacked against IfL remaining viable as a Private Limited Company after government funds have been withdrawn and subscriptions refunded in September 2012, on the recommendation of the current independent review led by Lord Lingfield.
  13. QTLS is mentioned in the Review of Vocational Education ?The Wolf Report.

    If you read section C. ?Strengthening the system: improving access to high quality vocational instruction? you will note it discusses ?high-quality vocational provision?, ?substandard provision, in which vocational awards were delivered in the absence of either genuine professionals who could teach it, or appropriate equipment?, ?the availability of high quality professionally-led vocational courses? and ?freedom for vocational professionals to operate across the whole 14-19 sector?.
    In this context the term ?qualified professionals? in recommendation 17 below refers to qualified professionals in Vocational Education:
    ?Recommendation 17: At present teachers with QTS can teach in FE colleges; the FE equivalent ? QTLS ? should be recognised in schools, which is currently not the case. This will enable schools to recruit qualified professionals to teach courses at school level (rather than bussing pupils to colleges) with clear efficiency gains.?
    So it would seem the information provided by the DfE? and the recommendation included in the Wolfe Report are contradictory. But taken in the context of the Wolfe Report QTLS only applies to Vocational Education.
  14. No. Incorrect. Wolf clearly recommends reforms in
    qualification requirements and that QTLS (the FE equivalent
    of Qualified Teacher
    Status) should be recognised in schools. It
    recommends that employers should be directly
    involved in quality
    assurance and assessment activities at local level, and argues that
    is the most important guarantor of high quality vocational

    See terry it is really very clear. The only problem is the funding really. Again, the money. We always come back to the money.
  15. The section on Vocational Education in the Wolf Report is about finding solutions to the problem of giving pupils the opportunity to be taught by vocational experts in their field and it recommended QTLS as the solution. It doesn?t recommend QTLS teachers start teaching five year-olds English and maths, which is what the DfE seems to be saying.
  16. You need to read very carefully what this says and what it doesn't. What it says is;
    "<u>further education teachers</u> who have been awarded QTLS by the Institute for Learning (IfL) and are members of the IfL will be <u>recognised</u> as qualified teachers in schools."
    My <u>emphasis</u>.
    It doesn't say that QTLS is an award <u>for</u> school teachers or a <u>qualification for</u> school teaching.
    Getting back the OP. She wishes to become a school teacher. But she is training to be an FE teacher. This will severely disadvantage her when it comes to apply for jobs for which there are already many, many trained and qualified school teachers in her subject.
    QTLS/QTS parity does not provide a alternative route into school teaching. It allows schools to pay those handful of vocational and specialist teachers that are drawn from the FE to teach in schools the same as school teachers.
    DTLLS & QTLS is simply not going to get you shortlisted for any other kind of teaching role in schools because neither demonstrates that you <u>can</u> teach school children.

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