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Dropped payscale for new job

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by leo07, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. leo07

    leo07 New commenter

    I've recently been offered a teaching job at a new school. I sent across details from my previous school, clearly stating which pay scale I was on.

    I have just received my contract but they’ve put me on a payscale lower, surely that can’t be right?! I’ve just tried to call my union but it’s shut.

    Can anyone help shed any light on this?

    Thanks in advance
  2. mothorchid

    mothorchid Star commenter

    Did you discuss the pay at your interview? Did they promise you'd have the same? Have you anything from the job description or such like to back up your wish for a higher rate?
    It could indeed be an oversight, or you might have failed to discuss pay and be on the wrong end of an assumption. Pay scale is not portable any more. This should be made very clear at interview, but since it's been the case for some time they may have decided not to tell anyone, because they think you know already.
    I hope it works out, but I wouldn't be utterly gobsmacked if it didn't either. Sorry.
  3. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Have you actually accepted the job and, if so, did you agree a salary beforehand? It has been the case for some time now that schools can offer you anything like down to the minimum on the Main Scale. So the salary is subject to negotiation. My own view is that the contract should not be binding if salary has not been agreed, but I am not a legal expert and I know that others disagree with me.

    If you haven't accepted the job, then you are free to go back and tell them what pay you would need before you do accept. But the school would be free to rescind the job offer if you did that.
  4. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    Didn’t you have The Conversation at the interview? You know, the awkward one, where you ask about the pay you’re going to get, and mention the pay grade you’re currently on, and everyone goes quiet for a moment, looking at each other, until someone finally says something like, “Ouch...” or “Oh dear...” and you realise that, although you’re exactly the person they NEED, and maybe even the person they all WANT, you’re unfortunately not the person they can AFFORD, so after a few more minutes of muted and slightly stilted conversation, you walk out into the fresh air knowing that, much as you like the place, you’re not taking a pay cut to do the same job in a different place BECAUSE YOU’RE WORTH IT, and you go home and cry a bit and STILL KNOW YOU MADE THE RIGHT DECISION.

  5. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    As there are no national payscales, schools can offer whatever they want and it is up to applicants to accept or decline. Your union can do nothing about it.
    leo07, Pomza, Jesmond12 and 3 others like this.
  6. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    When you are offered the post, that is the time to get these things absolutely clear:
    1. Confirmation of precise job title
    2. Part time/Full time
    3. Permanent/Fixed Term etc.
    4. Start date
    5. SALARY!
    Make notes as you have the conversation. Salary may need to be negotiated if you are not happy with what they offer. You need to have thought this through in advance - what is your ideal/what is your minimum? They may be prepared to negotiate or they may not. You may have to play this one carefully so you don’t burn your boats - as teachers we are not very accustomed to these kinds of conversations, but they are now unavoidably part of the process. If, at the end of the day, they will not negotiate and you dig your heels in, they may rescind their offer or you may feel you have no option but to decline. It’s a risk you have to decide whether or not to take.
  7. install

    install Star commenter

    Phone the school. It may be a clerical error - so request an updated contract. Let them know you cannot accept the job if the scale is wrong. Stick to your guns and don't be a victim of ruthless schools.

    I hope you have not yet handed in your notice until this has been cleared up.
    Catgirl1964, leo07, Pomza and 3 others like this.
  8. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    I was not usually given my written contract until I'd been working at the school for ages-if that's still what normally happens (I am working again now but not in a place where UPS/MPS would apply), howcaould the OP prove what what said at interview-even if she took notes, they could say she was mistaken or lying. You would hope that wouldn't happen, but I've heard of many interview promises not coming to fruition-and an interviewee can't very well ask to record the interview for proof!
    So, as there are no longer fixed scales, if they don't get a written copy of their contract upon acceptance of the post, what can they do?
  9. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    When offered the post verbally, you say "subject to satisfactory pay and conditions" or "I will need to see the salary and terms and conditions first". Usually, even though they don't send out the contract, they send out a written job offer following the interview. If it doesn't include the salary and the pay and conditions, refuse to accept in writing until you've got that. If not following STPCD/Burgundy book, you need to check out things like sick pay, maternity pay, etc. If part-time, you need to be clear whether it is 0.6, three days, or Mon/Tue/Wed.

    In the old days, it didn't matter that they didn't send out the contract until after starting, as the job offer would refer you to STPCD for terms and conditions, and they couldn't pay you less than you were already on. Now, schools need to get into the habit of making all the relevant information available at the point of application/acceptance, and if they don't, we need to ask.
  10. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Accept the job by email, specifying the agreed salary. Although in this case, it does not look as though anything was agreed - the OP simply sent current pay details and assumed that the school would pay at least the same.

    Yes. It baffles me that this is not done. Before I started teaching, every job offer was accompanied by such details. My daughter, who started her last job about a year ago, was emailed the contract. Given how standard teaching contracts are, I really can't understand why this can't happen in teaching.
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  11. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    @hhhh When all those things have been clarified verbally when you are offered the post (I presume during a phone call), if you are happy with the results, you make it clear that you are accepting the post based on these agreements/assurances.
    The school should then make you a formal offer in writing.
    You then need to respond, formally accepting. Their letter should have included the key points, including salary. If it didn’t or you want to be extra sure, put it in your reply:
    ‘I understand that the post of Head of English commences on September 1st 2020, is full-time and permanent, and that my salary will be £X as agreed during our phone conversation on....’
  12. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I dropped down in pay to get my current job.

    I've just regained my former salary.
    agathamorse and thekillers1 like this.
  13. thekillers1

    thekillers1 Lead commenter

    Ditto. Lost the UPS for main scale.
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. Grandsire

    Grandsire Star commenter

    Peakster & Thekillers1, you're both fortunate you can afford to accept a cut in pay, albeit a temporary one while you work your way back up the scale.

    I personally think I'm well worth the money I earn, but times are hard and schools are looking to save where they can. Sadly, these days, so am I.
    twitterbix and thekillers1 like this.
  15. thekillers1

    thekillers1 Lead commenter

    I know Grandsire where you're coming from with this. It's unjustifiable with accepting pay cuts yet there's job security and a flow of income still happening which ensures my family has food in the table and a roof over their heads.
    agathamorse likes this.
  16. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    I have been asked to drop from UPS 3 to nothing! :mad:
  17. Lalad

    Lalad Star commenter

  18. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    When it first happened, I was too surprised to react 'appropriately'. Later on, I developed a repertoire of more pithey responses! ;)
    JohnJCazorla and Lalad like this.
  19. frankxwilliams

    frankxwilliams New commenter

    Two years ago, when discussing salary and expecting to be bumped up one pay grade during a meeting after I accepted the post, I was told "We don't have to pay you what you were on before, you can be put on M1 if someone wants".
    It was in July so didn't think it was unreasonable to start September on the next band. I was also told "we don't have the budget". But the school did have the budget to pay the HT three times what I was asking for.

    Strange that. It's a completely crooked system where a HT can stop you from pay progression whilst naturally increasing their salary year on year by simply having to persuade a governing body they're not doing a **** job...
    DexterDexter and JohnJCazorla like this.
  20. frankxwilliams

    frankxwilliams New commenter

    Did nothing mean M1 or M3 for instance?

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