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don't want to return back to work (ever!)

Discussion in 'NQTs and new teachers' started by anon1369, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. Thanks for all the replies, sorry I havent been on for a few days. I'm currently away and don't get much Internet signal so I'll reply properly when I return home. The replies are all much appreciated, I apologise that I haven't responded to them all yet. Enjoy your Easter and I'll be back to update you next week.
  2. Doubt this, this Head knows what they are doing.
    Even if the contract was permanent it would have been conditional on achieving induction - even if it doesn't state this! -, since after a year you can't hold the job if you don't.
    BTW: You can't try for constructive dismissal unless you have been employed for two or more years - employment rights are vey weak within the first two years of any job.
    Best angle of attack is to go for 'can the school demonstrate compliance with its legal duties during the NQT year' - this especially applies to any paperwork and procedures. If not the NQT's recourse would be to the courts - failure of provision -, perfectly acceptable grounds of contract failure and compensation! -, which would be costly, take a lot of time and frankly worthless. The Union should however be able to apply pressure on the school to 'do the right thing'.
    Consider what the Head has said, his or her first offer. And most importantly don't panic! This Head is playing hardball, so take care/time on deciding where to fire back.
    Concentrate on achieving induction as this would automatically block the Heads action, although ofc the HEad decides on whether you pass or fail - funny that isn't it. It's a **** deal anyone thinking of doing a PGCE such be aware of, beofre they go spending money.

  3. If the post is advertised ANYONE can apply ofr it, so where the heck does the head get the idea they can control who applies and who doesn't. The Head's statement was worthless s****.
  4. That first option the Head is offering you nothing for something. If you don't resign they have to dismiss you, to do that they have to provides reasons, these reasons will be related to your 'failure of induction'* at which point you have a right of appeal. Agree to resign at end of 3rd term, you get no 'appeal' So don't agreed to resign unless they agree to pass you!!!
    I am only suggesting consideration of the latter as it sounds - on the basis of your statements only - that the Head is overruling any objective judgement on your abilities; for whatever reason.
    As to the second option, only agree an early release if you have another job to go too, otherwise just go on the sick - you'll get paid AND invalid the 3rd term for induction. The drawback of this is that the sickness goes on your record so you may have extra difficulty getting restarted on induction again. So think carefully. However this method does leave it open for the Head to Pass you, if you go quietly.
    Clearly you have no future at this school, also be aware that the Head is probably well practiced at this, and probably had a fair idea of the various responses.

    *Schools like to avoid 'failure of induction' since technically it is there failure as well and the appeal forces them to provide evidence they have done everything reasonable to support you in achieving your induction - which can be tricky.
  5. I agree with Lilypop - the head is trying to mess with you by offering something that you already have and making it look like it is a favour. Don't fall for it! You have a permanent contract, so the only way they can get rid of you is if they fail you. But as your union and LA NQT coordinator already know about the conspiracy the head is mounting against you (I hope you have told everyone and are collecting evidence, e.g. the ad for your job) the head will not have an easy time proving that their decision to fail you stands objective scrutiny. I would also offer to resign - after you have passed. Ask your union to negotiate an early release for September. But don't actually resign before you have all the paperwork that you have passed (otherwise the head will double-cross you).
  6. As of today, any employee can be dismissed from their job within two years of starting and the employer need give no reason with no liablity w.r.t. to a claim of unfair dismissal. I can't see any claim for constructive dismissal being of much cop during this period either, but that is a matter of opinion*.
    Note however the OP's situation is more complicated here, as the school has a duty to provide sufficient training during the three terms of NQT year. The comeback is not of much direct good to the NQT but would matter to the school - for example no more cheap NQTs till they got their training up to spec is one possibility or indeed such a proven failure could be cause for dismissal of the Head! Afterall if a Head can't arrange sufficient training for a fully qualified and keen adult there isn't much hope they can do so for children.

    *I suspect this law change will have some impact on education giving the highly subjective assessment of performance and the great difficult any teacher would have in 'proving-their-worth' in the short term.

  7. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    I don't need a lesson in the law, thanks. I was pointing out YOUR error, remember?
    No it is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of law. Do you know withdraw from this erroneous statement?:
    "BTW: You can't try for constructive dismissal unless you have been employed for two or more years"
    I maintain that you CAN try for constructive dismissal when you have been employed for any period of time.
  8. Thanks for the reply, yes I have told the union all about this and they are being really helpful but I don't think they have got much 'come back' against the school. The school are now saying they have concerns about behaviour management, which I know but it is getting so much better. The school is very very tough and all the other teachers are telling me how awful behaviour was for them in their first year but it got a lot easier in their second year.
    The way I'm feeling at the minute I don't want to get another job in a school after being treated this way. I know all schools are different but I haven't got any confidence in schools at the minute.
  9. I fully understand your point and I agree with it. I have had a total of 5 observations since sept - 3 satisfactory and 2 inadequate. The most recent inadequate was basically down to not pitching the lesson at the right level, everything else about the lesson was satisfactory. I do understand how important it is to level a lesson appropriately and I had planned to, but I followed advice from the HOD to do it as a double lesson so the first lesson would be at a lower level then the next lesson would expand on it and reach the higher levels.
  10. I'm sorry to hear that you are going through a similar thing, it is not nice at all! I understand what you are saying about your confidence too, I have ZERO confidence left now and really can't see myself teaching again.
    I hope the interview went well, good luck!
  11. Thanks for the reply. Yes I have been making notes to show how I am meeting each of the standards and I have something for every single standard. This is where I get confused when they say I am not making progress towards the standards.
    I think the union are going to negotiate me a reference because of how bad the situation seems to have become. The head was expecting me just to leave and that would be the end of it. I have been advised off the record to leave asap because a number of people are under the impression that they won't pass me at the end of the year, no matter what.
  12. Thanks for the reply spool. I totally understand what you are saying and that is what is confusing me. The head directly told the union what my 2 options were: 1) leave now or 2) complete the year on the basis that I would be resigning. I don't understand how this is legal but the union don't seem to be able to do anything about this. I think it is the school's way of saying, if you stay we are going to fail you no matter what.
    I know I should try and toughen up and get through the year but I don't think this is an option at all. Infact I have been advised that it looks extremely likely that the school would fail me at the end of the year no matter what.
    I still don't know how the school is allowed to get away with acting like this. I want to report them but who do I report them to? They must be breaking some laws surely?

  13. Lilypop thanks for all the messages. Ideally I would have liked to complete induction but this is looking increasingly unlikely. The union are going to try and get me released from my contract early hopefully with some pay as I won't be able to find a job until september. They still can't seem to tell me which standards I am not meeting, because I have evidence for them all!
    I think the head has decided he doesn't like me for whatever reason and I am quite an easy target really. It transpires that it would appear it was hoped that I would just roll over and leave without saying a word but now I've got the union involved they are trying to improve the situation for me.

  14. Neither do I, CC, and unless there is some crucial piece of info we are all missing here (I don't mean you are not telling us, I mean something you are not aware of either), I can't see how this can be legal and frankly, if the union is unable to sort it then they are pretty useless.
    This is exactly what the union should be doing...
    Only if you feel you can, CC. I was also off with WRS a few years ago and I know that some things are just impossible to do.
    I can also understand that you don't want another job in a school. I know that you trained as a teacher after having had a career in industry and I still remember how happy you were when you got this job.... It's horrible to see how they did away with you... [​IMG] It will pass though - pls take care of yourself in these stressful times, ok?
  15. Hi CC. How are things going? [​IMG]
  16. Thanks for the messages spool. I definitely won't be staying at the school much longer and the union are currently in negotiations with the school. Unfortunately there is no future for me at this school, if I chose to stay to complete the year I wouldn't be able to cope with the feelings of resentment and I certainly couldn't cope with being around certain members of staff any longer after the way I have been treated.
    I do feel like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders now I know things are coming to an end and I am feeling much happier, although I'm still finding things tough but at least I know it will be over soon.
    The school is pushing for outstanding and I was not the only NQT to be shown the door. They have still put me down as not making progress towards the standards on the end of term forms, however have then gone on to make comments under each C standard heading on the form to demonstrate what I have done towards that standard. There is evidence for all of them so I don't understand how they can justify this. I was thinking about speaking to the LA anonomously and asking them for advice so perhaps I could appeal against the decision or something.
    In other news I have managed to secure a job! It is outside of education but it seems really interesting and has great scope for career progression and I am looking forward to getting started. It won't be for a while yet but I do feel like I can sleep easier now knowing this, although my motivation for doing school work has taken a hit!
    Thanks again for all the messages and checking how I am, I'm actually pretty good apart from being very very angry at the head!
  17. Wow CC, that's excellent news! Happy for you. Let the head stuff it where he wants to. [​IMG]
  18. Thanks [​IMG]
    The head has made his bed so he can lie in it now, including the struggle to find a replacement for me!
  19. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious New commenter

    I had a similar situation - in the school I was employed in after my botched 1st post my new HoD pondered how they could write such positive termly reports yet put down inadequate progress (It was the frequent rubbish lesson obs...).
    It would seem some can't quite link what they're trying to do with what they're trying to say. Probably trying to make themselves look good *shrugs* .
  20. Thanks for the reply, I think some schools do it because it's easier to force you to leave than for them to step up and admit the school is failing in some capacity. I think I might contact the LA and ask for their opinion as no-one seems to be able to give me an answer.

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